Save What You Love with Mark Titus

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:40:02
Mark Titus
Welcome to Say what You Love. I'm Mark Titus. Today, we have an incredible conversation in store for you with April Bencze. She's a photographer, a writer, and a creek walker. What a job. Coming to us from Guilford Island in British Columbia. April has just in-depth experience with The Wild, as she's been living off grid for years now and has an incredible array of experience underwater with her photography in and around salmon streams on the coast and in the rainforest of British Columbia.

00:00:40:04 - 00:01:07:20
Mark Titus
We talk today about healing our trauma in the wild. We talk about the difference between being and doing and how important it is to be and to make time for that. And of course, we talk about wild salmon, the trouble that they're in and the incredible sense of belonging that they give us. Hope you enjoy today's episode. If you're digging this podcast, I'd love it if you'd consider giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts or even writing a review in your own words.

00:01:07:22 - 00:01:31:07
Mark Titus
It really helps a lot to get the message out. Also, if you're looking for wild salmon to your door, we've got a summer solution for you with a summer grilling experience kit through Avers Wild. And all you have to do is go to evaswild.com. That's the word save spelled backwards, wild dot com. And order yourself up a three month subscription for summer grilling.

00:01:31:09 - 00:01:52:13
Mark Titus
Along with that, you're going to get both a version of The Wild and the Breach. My two current documentaries, some VR goggles to take a little VR experience to Bristol Bay, and a really amazing action kit on how to take action for Bristol Bay as well as a Tom Douglas salmon rub to go on top of your salmon when you get it.

00:01:52:15 - 00:01:59:08
Mark Titus
Hope you enjoy the show today. Can't wait to see you next week. Take care.

00:01:59:10 - 00:02:34:17
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:02:34:17 - 00:02:35:23
Mark Titus
April Bencze, Welcome.

00:02:36:01 - 00:02:38:06
April Bencze
Thanks, Mike. It's good to be here.

00:02:38:07 - 00:02:59:01
Mark Titus
I'm glad you're here. It's been a while since we've connected. It seems like ages and ages ago. And of course, you've had a pandemic in between. So it is just so cool to connect through the power and the miracle of modern technology here to to be folding space together here for for a little bit. So thanks for jumping on.

00:02:59:03 - 00:03:08:10
April Bencze
Yeah, absolutely. I know I haven't seen you since pre-pandemic. Yeah, hopefully the borders open up again soon and I can see you in the flesh as well.

00:03:08:16 - 00:03:22:04
Mark Titus
So, you know, let's. Let's start this projector up. And if you would, maybe paint a little picture for us. And where are you today? Can you can you describe what you're seeing at your window for us?

00:03:22:06 - 00:03:51:00
April Bencze
Yeah, absolutely. I am. Big picture in North America on the west coast of Canada and British Columbia on zooming in to the island that I'm on is called Guilford Island, and it's an island off of the northeastern tip of Vancouver Island, and it's a remote boat. Access man. Today we're having a sunny day which feels really miraculous because it's been raining a lot this spring.

00:03:51:00 - 00:04:02:14
April Bencze
And yeah, just looking out the window here, seeing sun after two days of rainy fieldwork and planning to go outside after chatting with you.

00:04:02:16 - 00:04:06:23
Mark Titus
Fabulous. What are you doing for fieldwork right now?

00:04:07:01 - 00:04:27:11
April Bencze
I'm right now. I've got, I work as a creek walker seasonally, so when the salmon come to spawn every fall, I do about a four month period where I walk up the rivers and count the fish and identify different species and make notes on that. And so the fieldwork I'm doing right now is in preparation for that.

00:04:27:11 - 00:05:00:12
April Bencze
And it's basically doing some trail work on the creek, walking trails. Then the soil and salmon berries seem to grow back faster and thicker every year. So right now I'm just doing that trail work. And so the last couple days I was working on Creek that is very thick. And so we basically got up to Lake Access where the Coho are going to go to the cove, shoot up to the lake there and come down and spawn later in the fall.

00:05:00:12 - 00:05:05:06
April Bencze
And yeah, so it's not going to be as much of a bushwalk this year.

00:05:05:08 - 00:05:29:21
Mark Titus
Coho For you, dear listeners, if you're not familiar with all the salmon lingo is another name for a silver salmon. And I would like to know how I can get on the list to be a creek walker. That sounds like the ultimate job in my estimation. Could you just dive in for a little while here and and tell us your story?

00:05:29:21 - 00:05:40:03
Mark Titus
How did you come into this notion of immersing yourself in the things that you love to kind of, you know, protect and save the things you love?

00:05:40:05 - 00:06:09:11
April Bencze
Yeah. I mean, that's a big lifelong question, and I'll spare you all the childhood details and everything, but essentially I was raised in a place called Campbell River. We were come territory and it both being the salmon capital of the world. And so my, my childhood and adolescence was quite, yeah, the image of the salmon was, was always in, in my narrative I think.

00:06:09:11 - 00:06:42:19
April Bencze
And, and even when I wasn't aware of that and yeah, salmon have always really been like laced into my life and in a myriad of different ways. And it wasn't until I was older that I really became conscious of the impacts of that and, and how eating salmon growing up and going fishing and, you know, my parents my parents would take my brother and I in a rowboat at the crack of dawn and and go salmon fishing.

00:06:42:21 - 00:06:47:08
April Bencze
Sorry, I said it's very the childhood details, but here we go.

00:06:47:10 - 00:06:50:09
Mark Titus
I love the childhood details. So please bring them on.

00:06:50:11 - 00:07:37:18
April Bencze
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And I think I wasn't Yeah. As a kid. I mean, it was just kind of what we did, and I didn't know any other way of life. And now I've always been in fashion. And like I said, it wasn't until later in life that I became really conscious of what it means to be in relationship with a creature in that way, to be have that part of their prey dynamic and to consume another selection and become responsible for that community and I think that was a really big missing piece early in life, as is being unconsciously in this relationship with a creature that built my body and my bones and nourished me

00:07:37:18 - 00:08:07:11
April Bencze
in so many different ways and not giving back and not even not even being aware that giving it back was a responsibility and a part of that relationship that makes it that makes it whole and that makes a person whole. And and so I feel like my life and my work has really led me to where I am now, where I'm painfully aware of that relationship and of how salmon are.

00:08:07:13 - 00:08:33:07
April Bencze
The reason for the abundance that I've experienced in my life and and the abundance that I see and the wild places that have healed me and taught me so much. The salmon are the, you know, the backbone of that. And they're the thread that weaves that whole tapestry together and yeah, that's been a lifelong journey to even realize.

00:08:33:07 - 00:08:53:17
April Bencze
And I feel like I'm just now awakening to that in a really deep and real way and, and looking at how, you know, the last eight years or ten years or so have been looking at like first becoming aware of that and being filled with gratitude and and now looking at how I can, how I can give back.

00:08:53:17 - 00:09:29:04
April Bencze
And when the salmon here, you know, need our help the most, I don't need to tell you that. But the salmon are facing I don't even know how to say it, just at all levels. They're just trying to survive, trying to survive industry and and all of the death by a thousand cuts that there Western society has placed upon them to survive.

00:09:29:06 - 00:10:00:21
April Bencze
And many are learning many lessons from them through that of how I survived that Western colonial culture myself. Yeah. And the avenues to that are through, you know, through the various work that I've done and from underwater photography to filmmaking and conservation filmmaking and now to, you know, counting them for a living, which I think is just a great place to end up.

00:10:00:23 - 00:10:28:10
Mark Titus
You talk about an awakening, and I can identify certain moments in my life when I feel like I awakened to that bigger connection and a very visceral, physical compassion surrounding salmon. Do you can you identify and maybe speak to that moment or a series of moments that you, you know, saw that awakening happening in yourself?

00:10:28:12 - 00:10:48:04
April Bencze
Yeah, absolutely. And I think I think there was there was kind of a big one for me and then a series of smaller ones. And I still pretty much any time I go to a Salmon River. Now, there's an even more unfolding in that awakening. And I think it's going to be a lifelong, lifelong process for sure.

00:10:48:06 - 00:11:22:10
April Bencze
But kind of the the one that kicked it off and made my world go from great grayscale to color, was the first time I ever breathed on the water. And that was, that was during a dive. I yeah, I had the opportunity to take a scuba diving course, but I honestly wasn't that interested in and, and like I said, like I'd been living this kind of unconscious life.

00:11:22:12 - 00:12:05:02
April Bencze
Really. It does feel like it was grayscale. And then as soon as I went underwater and took a breath from my regulator of the compressed air and the scuba tank and opened my eyes to this this world underwater that existed without me really even knowing about it, except for, you know, in aquariums and things. But yeah, to throw myself in the ocean and literally open my eyes to to the ocean environment and marine ecosystem and just really be like, wow, Like there's a whole world down here that I never really thought about.

00:12:05:04 - 00:12:37:12
April Bencze
And, and that's really saying something. I was like somebody who was raised on the banks of a Salmon River and who spent their life or their childhood salmon fishing and things, and to to see the ocean as as this kind of like opaque blue barrier rather than what exists below it. And and all of the life there that that sustains us and and you know, where the air we breathe comes from.

00:12:37:12 - 00:13:15:01
April Bencze
It's like the kelp forests and everything, and just so much comes from the ocean. And to really see it for the first time when I was, I think, 1918. And so that was kind of a first shock that that woke me up to that. And then yeah, and then from there I was pretty obsessed and became a dive instructor and, yeah, I was diving, quite obsessively, just wanting to spend all my time underwater and meet all these creatures face to face.

00:13:15:01 - 00:13:52:13
April Bencze
And, and then from there, I think the first, the first kind of like creature I was in relationship with underwater was a giant Pacific octopus. And I would, I would dive before work and I'd have my dive shop uniform under my dry suit and dive on this little sailboat rack, about a 30 foot sailboat underwater. And I'd go and visit this octopus that lived in a sailboat before work and hang out with them verbally was very social.

00:13:52:15 - 00:14:12:14
April Bencze
And and then I'd go to work and teach diving. And then after work, I'd do a night dive and go back to the sailboat rack. And then I'd have a light underwater, then I'd shine and the octopus and I would go hunting and I'd shine the light on the crab and he'd pounce on it and eat the crab.

00:14:12:14 - 00:14:34:17
April Bencze
And then, yeah. And obviously he realized that his hunting successfully increased when I was around. And so I think that was part of the reason he was hanging out with me a lot. But yeah, and it lasted for about a year of doing that. And then one day he was gone and was don't have very long lives and that was pretty devastating.

00:14:34:17 - 00:15:05:12
April Bencze
But that really kind of woke me up to what it was like to have to be in relationship with non-human creatures and at that time that meant a lot to me. And that really opened the door for developing relationships with other species like salmon and wolves in the bears, and to realize how deep those relationships can go and then the things that they can teach you and and the ways that you can help them in return.

00:15:05:12 - 00:15:15:01
April Bencze
Because most wild species right now, definitely, yeah. They need all the help they can get.

00:15:15:03 - 00:15:51:05
Mark Titus
Wow. I will shamefully admit that I have never breathed from a regulator or haven't yet, but I have river snorkel with a friend Russ Ricketts and and then used to actually back in I was in B.C. when I was a kid. My brother and I did it was cold water provincial park on Vancouver Island. And yes, I can 100% relate to just that idea of there being such a bigger world that you didn't.

00:15:51:05 - 00:16:11:23
Mark Titus
It's right there in front of you that you can access. But then you I was pondering that and then you just took it to a whole nother level with your octopus friend and just kind of blew my thoughts. Sky high. I would imagine you've seen my octopus teacher.

00:16:12:01 - 00:16:43:23
April Bencze
I actually haven't, because my friend was like, This will break your heart. And honestly, wildlife, I've been a part of like filming for wildlife documentaries a lot and I have a aversion to wildlife documentaries that will break my heart just because I mean, yeah, after after going back to the sailboat and the underwater sailboat and not seeing the octopus anymore, I mean, that took a while to bounce back from and I'm sure I should watch the octopus feature one day.

00:16:44:01 - 00:16:47:02
April Bencze
That seems very, very relevant.

00:16:47:04 - 00:17:14:14
Mark Titus
Well, you're right on all counts. It will break your heart. And maybe that's good advice for a moment. You know, ponder that. But, you know, for those of us listening, you've lived what the miracle that happened in that film. And that's I know it touched my heart profoundly. And to have that kind of connection with a wild thing is not something that most people really get in this lifetime.

00:17:14:14 - 00:17:50:12
Mark Titus
So what a what a gift, what a blessing. And thank you for sharing that with us, because we get to live a little bit vicariously through your story. So thank you. And I was pondering a way to describe the impact your your images have on me and the word that I came up with was arresting. I often audibly gasp when I see a new image that you take and share graciously of the rainforest underwater or the coast.

00:17:50:14 - 00:18:01:20
Mark Titus
What are you looking for? How do you express yourself through your photography? And what are you looking for in an image? What is or can you even define that?

00:18:01:22 - 00:18:45:22
April Bencze
Yeah, well, thank you. And that means a lot that you have that response. Yeah, certainly in those moments that I'm taking the photos, I, I have having similar responses. And yeah, after I messed up my shots by doing that gasping or Yeah, getting too excited. But yeah, I think, I think when I am definitely more of like an intuitive photographer rather than somebody who's really, really engaged with like the technical aspect and all the rules of photography and, and image making.

00:18:46:00 - 00:19:09:09
April Bencze
Yeah. And I think what that means to me is when I take photos, I'm really feeling more, more like a translator or scribe. And rather than somebody who's going out and capturing something or making something, I feel like, you know, there's this amazing camera technology that I have no idea how it works and somehow has ended up in my hands.

00:19:09:11 - 00:20:01:03
April Bencze
And now I have the great privilege and great responsibility to to document wild places and and yeah, what a privilege and what a responsibility. And this time that we find ourselves in. And I think for me, taking these photos is basically just being there, being like in these places with, with creatures. And, and something I really learned is when not to take a photo, there's moments that I do feel like it isn't appropriate or respectful to take photographs and then ethics and photography has been so much more important to me than the shots ever will be.

00:20:01:03 - 00:20:41:12
April Bencze
And a lot of mentors that I've had have really tried to get me to drop that that belief. And yeah, for me it's like wildlife and nature is so beautiful and it's it feels really easy to capture or not capture, but to translate that beauty. And it's just a matter of being there and and the way of being in that environment and the way that you show up in those wild places because, yeah, I mean, when you show up in a wild place, you're a part of it.

00:20:41:12 - 00:21:12:04
April Bencze
And I think I think a mistake that a lot of photographers make is that they go into these places and they don't act like they're a part of it, which which changes the relationship between you and the the animal that you're trying to photograph even. Yeah. And with them and to I think that the way that you do it, the process over the products, it changes the game entirely and makes the biggest difference.

00:21:12:04 - 00:21:45:21
April Bencze
And I'm just trying to to be there in a good way and and interact with, with the subjects in a way that isn't invasive and isn't intrusive and doesn't change their behavior. And yeah, I'm hoping to just be kind of like another seagull on the banks and I try and ask permission before I take photographs and and obviously not verbally, but more with with that intuition than I was talking about and, and by reading body language.

00:21:45:21 - 00:21:53:19
April Bencze
And I like that the both of us. And yeah, that's kind of my philosophy behind that.

00:21:53:21 - 00:22:31:00
Mark Titus
That's so amazing. I'm just asking permission in a spiritual sense. I know that when I guided, I, I'm sure that a good portion of my guests were thinking I was kind of nuts, but I think every salmon that came over the cut off of my boat and, you know, certainly that's a very real visceral physical experience, bonking a salmon and quickly, you know, ending its suffering.

00:22:31:02 - 00:23:00:07
Mark Titus
But taking that another step further in in that respect of capturing its image and hopefully being of service to it. But I think that leads beautifully into this. This next bit. I wanted to chat with you about you're one of these enraging people that is incredibly talented in many things. And one of them is you're also a really wonderful writer.

00:23:00:09 - 00:23:29:23
Mark Titus
I feel like we share a common language. Honestly, when I'm trying to untie the knot, I find myself in, I generally find there is fear and ego in the middle of the mess. And I found ways mostly through recovery tools to help dissolve this. But here's one that you describe beautifully in a piece of writing that you wrote some time ago, and I'd just like to read that here, if that's okay with you.

00:23:30:01 - 00:23:31:05
April Bencze
Yeah, absolutely.

00:23:31:06 - 00:23:55:03
Mark Titus
Okay. So this is from a journal entry and you write, I'm finding the most healing experiences I encounter. All have a common thread. They all aid. They all aid in untangling the knots of ego. This is no easy task when raised within a culture that applauds the narcissism that has become so central to daily existence. The place I first experienced, the dissolving of my ego was underwater as you spoke so beautifully about.

00:23:55:05 - 00:24:13:20
Mark Titus
And since that first liquid merging, the feeling has seeped into all aspects of my life. When I am suspended between the ancient walls of a water carved canyon, I am not an individual, but a part of the river, the same as the water, the rock, the salmon, the crayfish, the suspended leaves. And if I am a part of this river.

00:24:13:20 - 00:24:33:11
Mark Titus
And so it is that I find myself a part of the ocean, a drop in this blue planet, and how humbled I am to find myself held in the paradox of such insignificance. How it sinks in that the way I spend my life matters. And at the same time knowing that it does not matter any more than the life of the salmon who hangs suspended in stillness in front of me.

00:24:33:13 - 00:24:53:21
Mark Titus
The salmon who has just come from the deep sea all the way upstream. Salt soaked wisdom so apparent in her disheveled scales and ragged tale, the salmon who has spawned and who before my eyes I watched die right there on the riverbed how it is not death or sadness that fills the river in her absence, but the opposite in her selfless dying.

00:24:53:21 - 00:25:20:22
Mark Titus
I see the very heart of life itself. For the first time. And so through my days, I try my best to always carry with me the humbling homecoming truth of my interdependence with the world around me. For this truth is medicine, for the lost and for the homesick. Poof. Okay, beautiful. And so we agree that we need to empty ourselves in the wild to reconnect.

00:25:21:00 - 00:25:39:02
Mark Titus
But our work as storytellers, by definition, requires an audience. How do you find a balance in dissolving empty, letting go of that ego, and then also bringing the stories that you feel called to tell to an audience?

00:25:39:04 - 00:25:46:08
April Bencze
that's a good question and a difficult question and a messy question. Yeah, I mean.

00:25:46:08 - 00:25:47:19
Mark Titus
Well, good. Messy is good.

00:25:47:19 - 00:26:03:14
April Bencze
Yeah, definitely. I guess my answer is going to be messy than the question, but essentially I'm in. How do I find the balance? Well, I'll let you know when I find the balance. And maybe you can let me know to.

00:26:03:16 - 00:26:06:22
Mark Titus
Yeah, we're on that. They're on that journey together, my friend.

00:26:07:00 - 00:26:50:20
April Bencze
Definitely. Yeah. I think that's this is such a good question to ask oneself over and over again. And for me, I think like anything, it comes in waves and sometimes I find myself spending a lot of time in nature and, and yeah, immersed in the side of things that are nonverbal and, and have nothing to do with an audience.

00:26:50:22 - 00:27:31:14
April Bencze
And, and I think that that's where that's where I work and that's where I learn things and I learn, I learn most, most of the things, the deepest, most important lessons I've learned in my life have been non-verbal. And it's very difficult to translate that in a way that feels like it does justice to the original source of these lessons and of these just have these insights and and they're not like, Yeah, they're not my own.

00:27:31:16 - 00:28:18:12
April Bencze
And I hope that I never may claim that these things are my own and these stories that I share my own and the experiences that I have are shared always are shared and and I guess, yeah, what does that mean? And I think that that means that that I feel that the lessons and teaching is an experiences and insights that and given are truly our gift and they don't come obviously a lot of the time and I find this I'm more speaking about writing than than photographs I now but it definitely does apply to photographs but kind of any form of storytelling really.

00:28:18:13 - 00:28:52:16
April Bencze
I think that, that the stories that we live and experience are so different in that we're living and experience and trying to share them afterwards, whether that be through the form of photography or film or writing or oral storytelling. I think that we're we're sharing but a glimpse of that lived experience. And I think it's enough to trigger in people their own lived experiences, even if they've just had a glimpse of what you're talking about.

00:28:52:18 - 00:29:20:11
April Bencze
And I think that's where where the power of storytelling really comes from is is in triggering other people's really like ability to relate to that and their own lived experience. And and even if they haven't had that, that direct lived experience and, and you share a story with them of yours. And even if there's not a direct relation, we're all humans and we're all living on this shared planet.

00:29:20:11 - 00:29:53:12
April Bencze
And even if you're the most disconnected person from nature living in a city, you still know what we're talking about. And I think like in your bones, maybe alone in your conscious memory, I think that there there is a resonance whenever anyone tells stories about wild places or nature, because, yeah, we all have we all have this shared relation to the planet.

00:29:53:12 - 00:30:32:11
April Bencze
And I think I think that that is where the power lies in storytelling and, and balancing being a storyteller and sharing these things with an audience versus, you know, living those stories. I think that, that, that balance is I don't know if it's super conscious in my, my experience, I think it's more, more of just following, following the natural rhythms of it.

00:30:32:13 - 00:31:05:12
April Bencze
You know, sometimes I don't even plan on telling a story and then all of a sudden I'm struck by the need to write something down and share it with people. And that that doesn't feel like it always comes from myself or my brain. It feels like a responsibility, and I also have not answered that call. So like the creative urge to write something down or translate an experience and then like, I'm too busy.

00:31:05:13 - 00:31:47:01
April Bencze
I, I have I have to do X, Y, and Z. I have this deadline. And so that burst of creativity or that spark of creativity fades and moves on. And I think it's our opportunity. And that's kind of getting down a whole other rabbit hole. But yeah, I think, I think it's important to make space for the storytelling and I think that the things that are important are going to have to be told and passed on and shared because that's how we learn as communities by by taking what experience and stories and sharing them with each other.

00:31:47:03 - 00:32:05:05
April Bencze
And that part of the equation is it feels like it should be given and given freely and received and received freely.

00:32:05:07 - 00:32:32:23
Mark Titus
Preach, sister, I'm so with you. And what a eloquent way of parsing that out. That was a big, messy question. You're right. And and it's that you're just flowing with mountain water here because we're going to get right into the next topic. But my reflection on that is that I completely share that and I completely share the struggle of, hey, I've got this inspiration.

00:32:32:23 - 00:33:05:09
Mark Titus
And oftentimes it just comes as an image. I've been inspired by sort of a sacramental image lately about salmon feeding all the things in the forest and like, what does that physically mean? And, you know, even like in regard to my own body on this planet and it's this image, it's very difficult. And, you know, you don't want to think about your you're not really thinking about your own mortality a lot.

00:33:05:11 - 00:33:26:23
Mark Titus
It's not always the most pleasant thing, but in relation to how salmon sacrifice their lives of the life itself can continue. And thinking about those those images and it's going to it takes some time. And I've been running into that very thing that you described as like, man, I got I've got these ten other things that have to be done first.

00:33:26:23 - 00:33:52:23
Mark Titus
I'll get to that, I'll get to that. And maybe there's some germination in that and maybe there is some need to for it to just sort of live in its own subconscious pool back there somewhere for a while and it's doing its own thing. But I really do struggle with this concept of being versus doing this balance wants more, you know, balance.

00:33:53:01 - 00:34:01:15
Mark Titus
There's another wonderful short piece that you wrote and I wonder if you can read it for us.

00:34:01:16 - 00:34:15:19
April Bencze
Yeah, absolutely. So this is something I wrote a few years ago now, but it's, as usual, always applies. Okay. So here we go.

00:34:15:21 - 00:34:36:20
April Bencze
Living in a culture that promotes an excess of busy isn't easy. The value placed on doing as opposed to being can leave us burned. Perhaps both have their place both being and doing so are parts of ourselves that need to be nourished regularly. Striking a balance is something I'm still tripping over. Sometimes time itself seems as elusive as the wolves here.

00:34:36:22 - 00:35:03:03
April Bencze
The ones who leave tracks in the sand but rarely offer up a glimpse of themselves. But if I'm being honest with myself, there's always time for both being and doing. I often try to trick myself into believing otherwise, letting priorities shift to make space for the urgency rather than the important doing, rather than being deadlines and emails threatening to take the place of leaning into creative energy and of thinking into wild places.

00:35:03:04 - 00:35:21:19
April Bencze
At times it feels like there is no time for anything besides the work that needs to be done to protect this planet. I exist within the grace of the time we are given. Whether I spend it deliberately, give it away freely, say it in solitude, share it with friends, or let it pass us by and wonder where it all went so far.

00:35:21:21 - 00:35:44:10
April Bencze
And I am also given the grace of choice. When I lose sight of this, I try to pause as air comes into the lungs and I come into the moment. The gift of time appears in its only true form. This right here and now the present. In this way I am learning. There is always time maybe to stretch on infinitely West, especially when the tide is out.

00:35:44:12 - 00:35:55:23
April Bencze
These mornings have a timelessness to them that I am a part of between dawn and then morning. Enough beauty fills my senses to keep the fire in me ablaze for a week, or rather an eternity.

00:35:56:01 - 00:36:24:00
Mark Titus
So beautiful. Thank you, April, I you know, I feel urgency every day. Like there won't be enough time to get all the work done, you know, especially the work for our planet that you you mentioned. And I also know that my work suffers if I don't surrender and dissolve and be present. What what is your maxim for this?

00:36:24:00 - 00:36:34:08
Mark Titus
If you have one on how to balance this this conundrum between urgency and and being.

00:36:34:10 - 00:37:32:13
April Bencze
This is possibly the great lesson of my life and something that I'm very much learning. And I'm like, maybe I have the theory down, but then putting into practice is the whole other story. And I think I think that's that the I think the concept of the urgency over the important and how often the urgent wins over the important is something yeah, that's something I can relate to so much and something that I try to do that really helps me is really prioritize the importance and, and because it's so easy to lose sight of that in the face of people, people asking for things and maybe the things that are important to them that

00:37:32:13 - 00:38:27:03
April Bencze
are only urgent to me, that's, that's the choice that I make. How I, how I give my time and how I take time and how I what I do with it. And I think for me, just really trying my best to stay present so that I can make those choices. Because when I know that when I'm on autopilot and from all the conditioning of growing up in a Western society, I'm taught from a very young age to prioritize other people's needs and to prioritize deadlines and taxes and yeah, making enough money to pay my rent and all these things that are super important.

00:38:27:03 - 00:38:59:02
April Bencze
And a lot of us are locked in into having to spend a lot of time doing in order to survive. And then what's left over is a very tired human and yeah, and then it seems like it seems like being is so deprioritized in in Western culture. Almost made to seem like it's a waste of time.

00:38:59:04 - 00:39:28:04
April Bencze
And I don't know if if you've had that experience too, but but even still, even even with no way. yeah, yeah. Even with knowing so much with, like, every fiber in my body, but going outside into the forest and spending an hour out there will do so much more for me will be so healing and so inspiring and just like refresh me in a way that that nothing else does.

00:39:28:04 - 00:40:04:09
April Bencze
I still struggle to leave my computer. I leave my unanswered emails and go into the forest. And for me, I live off grid and the forest is literally 2 minutes of the door. And if I struggle to do that, then it's it's hard to. Yeah, it's so it's just hard it's hard to be conditioned and prioritize that being even even when you know, it's medicine, even when you know that it's probably going to do more to save what we will have than answering those emails that are sitting there waiting for you.

00:40:04:11 - 00:40:07:15
April Bencze

00:40:07:17 - 00:40:38:05
Mark Titus
Amen. You know, I had this exact experience yesterday afternoon and I was up against it and really circling around all up in my head, you know, had the hamster on the on the wheel, you know, running around in my brain and just getting down on my, quote, productivity. You know, this stuff, this busyness. And I looked at the weather and it's like it's 75% chance of rain.

00:40:38:05 - 00:40:54:06
Mark Titus
And I'm I finished the last critical call I had for the afternoon. And I was like, you know what? Fuck it, I am. I'm going to the Snoqualmie River and I'm going to go stand in that river. And I'm sure it's big and I'm probably not going to catch a god damn thing, but I'm going to go do that.

00:40:54:08 - 00:41:20:07
Mark Titus
And it did. And I brought an apple and some water and walked out the door and was out there 45 minutes later and standing in this river and getting getting drenched and was overflowing with joy. Now I didn't catch a damn thing and it was beautiful. And an hour and a half in that river gave me the nourishment I needed, desperately needed.

00:41:20:09 - 00:41:42:23
Mark Titus
This week. And, you know, so I've been doing this since, I don't know, like in November, I dedicated a day, a week, like I'm going to get out one day a week come hell or high water. And, you know, the last, I don't know, two or three weeks, I've been getting super busy and I haven't done it. And boy, do I.

00:41:43:00 - 00:41:58:20
Mark Titus
I can tell. It's just incredible. I can physically feel it in my chest, in my body. Do you have other tools or, I don't know, self-imposed mandates or, you know, things that you can do that that helps you focus on the present?

00:41:58:22 - 00:42:24:16
April Bencze
Yeah, I do. Yeah. And I can relate so much to your story. Yeah, it's I'm always I'm trying not to kick myself for how how long it takes me to remember that. It's like a constant remembering and forgetting. I'm like, just go to the river or just go to the river. And I have the great privilege of Yep, for four months of the year, every day going to the river and walking up for work.

00:42:24:18 - 00:43:07:03
April Bencze
And still there I am in the spring being like getting, yeah, getting so unwell and all I need to do is go outside and take a breath, go to the forest, go by the river. I just really do anything outside and yeah, it's pretty amazing. But yeah, in terms of things that keep me present, I have a very intermittent practice of meditation and that really has, it really helps me to connect with the present moment and remember that, that in the present is where I, where I exist.

00:43:07:03 - 00:43:34:06
April Bencze
And if I'm thinking about the future and if I'm thinking about the past and I'm not really here living and of course it's necessary to plan and, and unpack the past time times. But if that's if that's your dominant reality, then, you know, if you're only spending an hour a week in the present moment with your feet in the river, like how is that really a balance?

00:43:34:06 - 00:44:14:00
April Bencze
And, and then how to achieve that with all the demands and all of the, you know, all the work we're trying to do to to halt the course that we're currently on as a species, on a planet that that our own species is destroying. So it's it does feel like the work is urgent a lot of the time, especially with the work that you do and that hopefully I'm doing my meditation, something that I do and I think it's different.

00:44:14:00 - 00:44:53:12
April Bencze
I feel like it's just going to be so different for everybody, like for myself, writing really helps me to remember. It helps me to put these things, these experiences into words and and be like, yes, this is very important. And then to reflect on all those experiences. And I think that there's also a way that you can go out for a walk in the forest and not be present for that and miss out on the healing and the attunement that that is going to really totally change your whole body and mind.

00:44:53:14 - 00:45:20:18
April Bencze
And I think that that used to happen to me a lot as is going out and then being, you know, literally answering emails in my head instead of taking in this like giant red cedar in front of me. And that's been a practice to just step away from and and to learn how to be present in nature. Because I wasn't taught that growing up in Western culture at all.

00:45:20:20 - 00:45:50:10
April Bencze
I was, you know, I was taught to fear the things that I now find the most healing and joy with it. And so that's a lot of conditioning to undo and a lot of learning how to present with nature and how to sit and sit next to a dandelion and just like be in or that, you know, it's it's not something that's taught very often, but it's something that we all know how to do if you strip away those layers of conditioning.

00:45:50:11 - 00:46:15:23
Mark Titus
I love that you bring up first of all, obviously, we're, you know, completely simpatico on on nature. That that's like, you know, it's like plugging into the main line of electricity, for sure. But, you know, to be clear, you're bringing up that you're 2 minutes away from the wilderness and you still into these problems, first of all. Yeah.

00:46:16:00 - 00:46:41:20
Mark Titus
And that makes me feel a lot better because I have that excuse all the time. And I'm like, Yeah, God, if I was just still living up in the Tongass National Forest in southeast Alaska, boy, I would really be connecting then. And that's complete bullshit, you know, it's about is about making that decision. Like you say, it's about, you know, I'm going to go and connect.

00:46:41:22 - 00:47:10:23
Mark Titus
You can connect with the face of an elder on the street, in the city you can connect with and, you know, a line of aunts. You can connect with a flower coming out. I mean, then it's springtime. It's a miracle all around. You don't have to be in proximity of wilderness to to see the miracle. You know. But it is, in fact, you know, clearly for the kind of work where we're doing anything, we're drawn to.

00:47:10:23 - 00:47:34:22
Mark Titus
It is it is the main source of medicine. And and, you know, the ground level of inspiration. So I wanted to chat for a second about and we're kind of touching on it right now, actually. But I just want to chat for a second about trauma. I mean, we we all experience it to some degree. I have. I know you have.

00:47:35:00 - 00:47:56:13
Mark Titus
What do you find in the wild? That is the best medicine for you? I've got my own answer to this, too. But I'm curious what what it is for you that the wild does that gives you a sense of belonging and comfort in the face of trauma during our lifetime?

00:47:56:15 - 00:48:29:00
April Bencze
Yeah. Thanks for asking that. And I'm looking forward to hearing your insight on that as well, because I think it is different for everyone and my relationship with nature and with wilderness and what this planet really did stem from experiencing trauma and facing sexual violence, facing a myriad of other traumatic incidents, and most recently a car accident, brain injury.

00:48:29:00 - 00:49:09:01
April Bencze
So there's so many forms of trauma, and I don't think anyone gets out alive, you know, like most humans have some form of trauma. It's not all of us. And so how how do we heal from that? And how do we reckon with that? And for me, with her, I think that, you know, the context of that diving story I shared earlier about taking my first breath underwater like that really pulled me out of a trauma state and made me see the world in a totally different way.

00:49:09:01 - 00:49:36:08
April Bencze
And then again after that, I went through a pretty traumatic experience and then coming out on the other side of that, it was diving and being underwater. And that relationship with the octopus that I shared that helped me heal from that. And showed me how to trust another creature again. And from there is where I built up again.

00:49:36:09 - 00:50:11:03
April Bencze
And honestly, the last, like however many years, has been in in lieu of of people who were able to teach me the things, the bigger life lessons, the real deep things that steer the course of your life. You know, I had some mentors and wildlife photography who very much instead of helping me to fight for ethics and and how to how to be a good human and how to how to interact with wildlife, you know, were abusive.

00:50:11:03 - 00:50:46:04
April Bencze
And and I'm still unlearning the things that I unfortunately learned from them. And so from there, I really had to look to to another source. And that source for me was wild places and nature and wildlife and especially salmon. Salmon have taught me all the great lessons of life. And they've they've taught me how to reckon with my own mortality and and how to make the most of a short life.

00:50:46:06 - 00:51:41:15
April Bencze
You know, I can remember I really struggled in my life with, like suicidal ideation and that sort of thing. For, for a while and, and walking salmon rivers in the fall and seeing live salmon spawning and giving their lives for the next generation of salmon and back falls of more eggs, dead salmon and just really like really feeling and being immersed in that dance of death and life and life and death and being a part of that has taught me so much about what it is to be a creature on this planet and and how to how to navigate, how to navigate trauma and work through all of that.

00:51:41:15 - 00:52:20:14
April Bencze
And I think I don't know where I'd be without without those lessons and without these experiences. And it really taught me to, you know, in a time in my life where I moved off grid to be alone because being around people was too triggering and too traumatic for me to even live through moving off grid and and sitting with nature and being like, Now, now I'm sitting in this aloneness and isolation and then literally sitting on the bank of a salmon river, realizing that I'm the furthest thing from alone that I've ever been.

00:52:20:19 - 00:52:51:21
April Bencze
And being in relationship with, you know, the Earth itself and all of these creatures. Yeah, I will I will never experience that. A sense of aloneness and isolation again because of that. And that's such a gift. And I hope that other people can find that gift for themselves, too, because it's the access to that is everywhere. Like you said, you can be in a city far from nature and the access is there.

00:52:51:21 - 00:53:04:04
April Bencze
All you have to do is look up at the sky and watch the clouds, the stars. And you can you can access that very community and sense of belonging through that.

00:53:04:06 - 00:53:37:15
Mark Titus
Thank you for sharing that incredibly vulnerable part of you. April is incredibly generous and I'm getting so much in my heart right now out of it. And I know our listeners are too. I am just sitting here nodding, just dumbly nodding. But the, you know, like you said, we don't get out of life. And everybody to greater or lesser degrees, you've experienced some deeply emotional, deeply physical and emotional trauma.

00:53:37:17 - 00:54:18:02
Mark Titus
And I've I've experienced emotional trauma and I've gone through a, you know, putting myself under water, going through addiction. And and it really all centered around one thing. And you you hit it. It was isolation. It was this sense of aloneness and going it alone and the need to go it alone and figure it all out and as you were talking, I was recalling in my mind's eye when I checked out, I checked out for two years off grid in Southeast Alaska and was along a Salmon creek.

00:54:18:02 - 00:54:51:14
Mark Titus
And I remember one evening in particular, I was out in a canoe and it was silent and. It was sort of that magic hour and it was in the fall. And I remember thinking that I hadn't had a watch in a while and I didn't need it because the that time had just completely become irrelevant. It was now no longer this function of a mechanism or all that urgency.

00:54:51:16 - 00:55:29:05
Mark Titus
It was about the time when the steel had come home or the time when the ducks are here, or the time when the geese leave or, you know, it just became a much slower and more inclusive way of living. And I felt completely connected. And in that moment, that one instance on out there in the bay in the canoe, I felt complete and didn't need another thing at all.

00:55:29:07 - 00:55:59:19
Mark Titus
And in that, you know, I was not at all. And so and I also love I love what you said about accessing it by looking up or looking down, you know, or, you know, reaching out and, God forbid, holding someone's hands. Now, in the time of COVID that we're drawing out of. Thank you so much for sharing that your your wisdom, your insight and your vulnerability.

00:55:59:21 - 00:56:32:09
Mark Titus
So now that we are crawling out of COVID, do you feel a little bit more drawn to collaborating with, you know, other folks to do the work we're doing here in Salmon Nation? How do you best see that working, learning from the last year? Do you think that, you know, being miles apart as we are right now, do you do you sense that maybe there is some benefit that we've learned in this time of how to collaborate in a better way?

00:56:32:10 - 00:57:19:21
April Bencze
I do, yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that last experience too. But yeah, I do feel like I mean, I don't think anyone's gone through this pandemic and been unchanged. And if they have, I feel sorry for them, you know, like I think that. But with all of the trauma of this pandemic and all of the loss and the division, that's something that has been breaking my heart as much as, you know, seeing all the death involved as the division of like, you know, from outright denial of people's direct experiences and and, you know, body shaming and all of these sorts with, you know, making your own decisions regarding vaccines and everything to.

00:57:19:23 - 00:57:43:06
April Bencze
Yeah. And that's on both sides, too. Yeah. Just, just the polarization. And we've seen that a lot in the last couple of years. I think that some of the big lessons that have come out of the pandemic for me and this will be different for anybody is just how important it is to connect with people as communities and work together.

00:57:43:08 - 00:58:28:21
April Bencze
And it's really it's really highlighted how to do that. And and, you know, the greatest examples that I've seen have been from from the communities that I live near, which is, you know, Alert Bay choirs health. The health food nation has been an amazing example of of how you know and these are all indigenous nations who who know how to take care of each other and have been doing that for thousands of years on this coast and and you know, that looks like food sovereignty and talking to each other and doing what's best for your community.

00:58:28:21 - 00:59:39:10
April Bencze
And I think these practices have become more yeah, more definitely more necessary. They've always been necessary. But the pandemic has really made it has really pointed out that necessity. And I think that for me, I've been doing a lot of, you know, learning and unlearning and just it's really pointed out how dysfunctional and destructive and oppressive the like Western culture and like colonial mentality of of this this country that I'm a part of Canada is and and what that does to people and how it even outside of a pandemic is so disconnecting and keeping people separate and this mentality of of extreme independence and the pandemic has really highlighted that for me with having, you

00:59:39:10 - 01:00:28:22
April Bencze
know, physically separate everyone now and socially separating everyone. There's a difference between separating yourself socially to keep your community safe and having having your culture. You know, this Western culture that I was raised in, separating you emotionally and spiritually and isolating you from people in a different way. And I think that the pandemics form of isolation, you know, doing it out of a sense of care is a lot easier to deal with because I'm going to come out of that and with a greater understanding of just how important that connection is and just how important it is to work together as communities.

01:00:29:00 - 01:01:11:03
April Bencze
And I'm still going to be doing the hard work of unlearning these things that this conditioning that I have of isolating myself spiritually and from community and everything, just from that kind of independent mindset and. Yeah. And then in terms of environmentally and planet in a planetary sense of the impacts of this pandemic, I think I think it's going to really reframe the work that I've been doing.

01:01:11:05 - 01:01:12:15
Mark Titus

01:01:12:16 - 01:01:58:06
April Bencze
And I'm not sure exactly how to explain that, other than it's really stripped away all the fat of all of the industries that I've been participating in in the conservation industry, because it just shows it's just shown how it's highlighted the importance and it's really stripped away the thought of the things that seemed urgent. And it puts a sharper point on the work that I think we're all doing and just, you know, it's really giving a sense of of we don't have that much time and there's so much that needs to change.

01:01:58:06 - 01:02:42:22
April Bencze
And and my work has really mirrored that with Cree walking because one of the salmon rivers that I walk, it should have a run. Historically, it's had a run of 40,000 fish. And last year I walked up it and I believe the peak number was 40, 40 chum salmon, as opposed to a run of 40,000. And this grizzly bear that's in there who has never even looked twice at me in previous years when there was more fish, it all of a sudden blocked, charging me because of this sense of scarcity and this grizzly bear eating black bears because there's not enough salmon for them to survive the winter.

01:02:43:03 - 01:03:28:15
April Bencze
And all of a sudden this scarcity, this landscape of scarcity has completely changed how we relate to each other. And I, I'm hoping that in in the human world that I feel like we're heading towards a huge landscape of scarcity, and I hope it doesn't put us against each other. I hope that we because we have the gift of consciousness and, and, you know, the ability to work together to right these wrongs and to bring salmon back and to do all these things, I hope that it binds us together rather than tear gas further apart.

01:03:28:17 - 01:04:05:17
Mark Titus
Well, one thing's for sure, we're going to need another time to connect. We can keep going for a couple more hours. Honestly. Yeah. Profound wisdom in your words. I in regard to salmon in particular, you know, is one part of this giant, not of the the mess we're we've got painted ourselves into here as a species. And obviously, you know, salmon have wound their ways into our hearts.

01:04:05:17 - 01:04:42:10
Mark Titus
And so we focus so much energy on them for what they represent and what they physically offer to the bioregion. You know, clearly been looking at Bristol Bay because it's an intact ecosystem still and and also then, you know, my closer to home here in the Salish Sea and the issues with the scarcity of Chinook and the four salmon blocking dams still in the Snake River it's a massive topic.

01:04:42:11 - 01:05:22:19
Mark Titus
You've just painted a very urgent and potent picture of that, of walking that creek with only 40 chum last year. What can we do? What can you do based on where you are now in your community, in your small part of the bioregion? What is the advice you have for doing what we can to protect wild salmon and try to bring these fish back in, in numbers and in health and in, you know, to to help the entire ecosystem?

01:05:22:21 - 01:05:44:21
April Bencze
Yeah, Isn't that the question? The question of our lifetime, honestly, is there. I have I've had several urges over the past couple of weeks to move our conversation to a much later date until I've figured out the answer to this question. But and then realizing that, yeah, I'm never going to have a clean and clear answer to that.

01:05:44:22 - 01:06:19:07
April Bencze
Well, I mean, I hope that I will. But at this point, at this point, all I have is the understanding that I have now and I think that there's a lot of people who who have been thinking about this for a much longer time than I have. And so I still have so much to learn. But from where I stand and from the experiences that I've had, I can honestly say that earlier I said Salmon.

01:06:19:09 - 01:07:03:13
April Bencze
You know, it's there in case of a death by a thousand cuts and what I meant by that was they have been impacted at every stage of their life that every corner they turn they face some new some threat. And you know, whether that's that's logging clear cut logging their their headwaters to using their rivers as log shoots however many years ago that they did that and you know saying forestry has no impact on or little impact on salmon populations and declines while damming up the lakes and using the small salmon increases those log shoots to get these giant cedars out.

01:07:03:15 - 01:07:54:17
April Bencze
And so that's that's up in the rivers and then yeah, and never mind, you know, natural predators and all of the natural hurdles that salmon face in order to make it back to the river to survive. But they come out of those rivers that which hillsides and clearcut have been sprayed with pesticides, herbicides. And, you know you're dealing with more acidity, chemistry and and coming out and passing industrial open that fish farms in the ocean which are infecting the juvenile salmon with sea life and disease.

01:07:54:19 - 01:08:23:15
April Bencze
You know, it really is death by a thousand cuts. And then they go out into the ocean and are facing all the challenges of, you know, what climate change is doing to our planet and just huge shifting oceanic changes. And then you've got the fishing industry and I'm I'm not really a fan of demonizing the fishing industry except for huge, huge, you know, the huge supertrawlers out there.

01:08:23:15 - 01:08:59:00
April Bencze
And but in terms of like the family run, you know, of commercial fish before and yeah, the and yeah so it's it really is just so many things and and I think that it's really systemic change that we need and it's it's a huge worldview shift that we need and it's it's not it's a change in relationship with the natural world and it's changing your relationship with forests and trees and rivers and fashion.

01:08:59:02 - 01:09:28:02
April Bencze
A lot of people don't have those relationships to begin with, which is what allows this extractive industry and many extractive industries to pull out all of these resource of quote unquote, until there's nothing left. And then and then we do years of science to try and figure out why there's nothing left while, you know, population of salmon go extinct.

01:09:28:04 - 01:10:06:23
April Bencze
And so it's the system isn't working for the people, it's working for industry and it's working for this global economy. But it's yeah, it's it's it's shocking. It's shocking that I just feel like we know what the problem is and shutting down or changing hugely changing how we relate to these things that we call resources is the only way it's going to change.

01:10:07:01 - 01:10:49:16
Mark Titus
Yeah, I love that we ground our passion in our work, in love. And I think that when I look at your images and when read your essays, that's what I, I glean is that love and so faced with the incredible volume of challenges we have, I would personally it's the name of the show and I would prescribe, you know, finding some way to connect to something in in the natural world, something bigger than ourselves to love.

01:10:49:16 - 01:10:55:08
Mark Titus
If you love something, you're going to fight for it. You feel the same way.

01:10:55:09 - 01:11:24:21
April Bencze
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think that yeah, everything has to be grounded in and love. And I think these changes need to be made in love and yeah, my friend Nick Sanchez says love is the revolution. And that's always really stuck with me. And that's that's exactly what it is. Because you can't change things with with resentments or, you know, all these other things.

01:11:24:21 - 01:11:41:08
April Bencze
And I think I think that I think that rage is rooted in love. I think that there's a lot of emotions that are rooted in love. And it just yes, you just have to check in with yourself and make sure that that that is the root and that's the driving force.

01:11:41:10 - 01:12:05:17
Mark Titus
Well, okay. So I feel like we have an open invitation. If we if I can catch up with you in your back off the water when you do have it figured out, examine conundrum, you know, which means that's a a lifetime open invitation. So but for now, we'll start wrapping it up. And I've got this fun little speed round at the end of each one of these things.

01:12:05:17 - 01:12:21:17
Mark Titus
And so here's here's the shtick. Let's say you're, you know, God forbid your house were on fire, you get out your loved ones, your pets, of course. But is there one physical thing you would take with you and what would that be?

01:12:21:19 - 01:12:50:23
April Bencze
And I know that's fun. You just looking around here, I mean, definitely not if it was going to, you know, put me in danger or put my pets in danger, but my dog or my cat would would be outside already. I think the only thing that's coming to mind, I mean, yeah, material possessions definitely are it's like a lot of the time worth saving.

01:12:51:00 - 01:13:13:16
April Bencze
But there is one thing that I think I would dash in and grab if I get a free pass and that would be this plan that I have, what if I could save all my plans every day? But this one plan's called the queen of night. And it was. It's like cutting from my grandfather's original plan to the point is now, like, a lot.

01:13:13:18 - 01:13:31:04
April Bencze
My family members have cuttings and they're growing them. And the plants, the flower blooms on a full moon. And yeah, I've worked really hard to put all my grandpa has passed away and he means a lot to me, so I probably grab that.

01:13:31:06 - 01:13:49:04
Mark Titus
Yeah, that's amazing. That's beautiful. All right, well, let's call it now your spiritual house. Like, get a little metaphysical here. What are the two characteristics about you that you would take if you could only take two things that make you.

01:13:49:04 - 01:14:27:12
April Bencze
You know, that's interesting. I think I would take my and I say my with the most attachment, but my sense of awareness. I think that that kind of ability, like the things that all the things that make me me step back from that and add that perspective of witnessing those things and realizing that I'm larger than the human body that I am lucky enough to inhabit in this lifetime.

01:14:27:14 - 01:14:36:02
April Bencze
And so just having that that larger sense of, of awareness is one thing.

01:14:36:04 - 01:14:49:09
Mark Titus
Fantastic. And and I totally see that. And that's been this conversation today. Lastly, is there anything you would leave behind to be burned up in the fire?

01:14:49:09 - 01:15:18:08
April Bencze
Purified everything else that would that would be very cleansing and one of the really but in particular I think for my you know, the more metaphysical aspect of it, that's a hard one. My knee jerk reaction was to say my fear. And so I'll probably go with that one. Yeah. Just like the fear, especially social fear for me.

01:15:18:10 - 01:15:30:00
April Bencze
Yeah. And I think that I would really think if everyone could leave that fear, social fear behind, that would really free us all up to be who we truly are and do what we're here to do.

01:15:30:02 - 01:15:54:03
Mark Titus
Fear is a doozy. But here we are talking to each other and eradicating it for the moment. So I appreciate you so much. Thank you so much for this beautiful conversation today. April Events. How can people get involved with your work? Can people see your images and read the words, the beautiful words you write? Where do they find you?

01:15:54:05 - 01:16:21:12
April Bencze
They can find me on Instagram at April Bend, My last name felt and very. And my website is Long live the coast. Okay, I have to update. Yeah. And then in real life you can find me on quick question in her comments First nation territory where I live at work.

01:16:21:14 - 01:16:42:15
Mark Titus
I can't wait to visit some day and I hope we can continue this conversation as we progress into this new new world we're in after after this little sleep. And I appreciate you so much. Thank you for being with us today. And till till next time we'll see you down the trail.

01:16:42:16 - 01:16:46:06
April Bencze
Thank you so much for everything you do, Mark. And thanks for having me on here.

01:16:46:08 - 01:16:56:07
Mark Titus
So long.

01:16:56:08 - 01:16:58:17
Music
How do you say the words you love? How do you say the words you love?

01:16:58:17 - 01:17:21:19
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening to say what you love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts, you can check out photos and links from this episode at evaswild.com. While there, you can join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter.

01:17:21:21 - 01:17:50:23
Mark Titus
You'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way. That's at evaswild.com. That's the word save spelled backwards Wild Tor.com. This episode was produced by Tyler Wight and edited by Patrick Troll. Original music was created by Whiskey Class. This podcast is a collaboration between Eva's Wild Stories and Salmon Nation and was recorded on the homelands of the Duwamish people.

01:17:51:00 - 01:18:08:15
Mark Titus
We'd like to recognize these lands and waters and their significance for the peoples who lived and continued to live in this region whose practices and spiritualities were and are tied to the land in the water and whose lives continue to enrich and develop in relationship to the land waters and other inhabitants today.