Save What You Love with Mark Titus

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Mark Titus
Welcome to Say What You Love. I'm Mark Titus. Today's conversation. I get to hang out with my friend Joseph Fasano, who is an incredible artist who lives up in the Skagit Valley of Northern Washington State. Joe is an accomplished spey fly fisherman. In fact, he was there right at the very beginning of the spey craze. For those of you who understand and are into that sort of thing.

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Mark Titus
And more importantly, Joe has got an incredibly ambitious and beautiful art project underway. It's called School, and we get to be a small part of that with our team here at Avis Wild in that we're kicking off a three day global event with a screening of my documentary The Wild. Tomorrow, Tuesday, May 18th, at 10 a.m. Pacific Time.

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Mark Titus
Head on over to our social media pages at the Wild film or at Eva's Wild to check out and register for this special screening. Following the screening for the next couple of days. There's going to be glassblowing across the world virtually and all connected as a part of this much bigger art project called School. I'm going to let Joe explain it to you.

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Mark Titus
It's complicated. It's beautiful. It's pushing the needle forward on what we need to do to raise awareness to save our wild salmon stocks. Hope you enjoy the show today. If you dig this show, please consider giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts and write a review. It really helps boost our performance. And with that, I present to you Joe Rossano.

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Music
Take care and see you next time.

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Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

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Mark Titus
Joseph Rossano. Welcome.

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Joseph Rossano
Thank you. It's great to be here, man.

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Mark Titus
I am so glad we get to hang out today and we're going to have a deep dive into the meandering pool in the river here soon enough. But I want to get to the exciting stuff first. What's going on next week and how do we participate?

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Joseph Rossano
Well, the the salmon school is growing. Next week it kicks off with you and Salmon Nation doing a presentation of the wild and sort of setting the stage for the world. We'll then make fish virtually as part of the Glass Arts Society's annual conference beginning on the 19th and running through the 21st. So yeah, we have the Museum of Glass will be Norway, Japan, Australia.

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Joseph Rossano
It's going to be great. And you can go to the Salmon school website or you can go to Abe's Wild and learn about where.

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Mark Titus
That's great. So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're going to be blowing glass live. Of course, virtually you'll be actually doing it. But people can watch virtually and then there's going to be actual people blowing glass at these various locations all over the world. And we can watch that, too. Is that right?

00:03:39:14 - 00:04:22:22
Joseph Rossano
Yeah. We have partner studios in Norway, Wiltshire, England, Northern Ireland, Australia, Japan, Brooklyn, North Carolina, and Tacoma. And each one of those studios will be inviting artists and scientists in to make to to make fish, to enlarge the school. Those fish will then be sent back to me. Silver them. And if all goes well and we tell a great story, hopefully this will be the backdrop for the global climate change Summit, the United Nations global climate change summit in Glasgow this November.

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Joseph Rossano
So that's what we're all working towards. It's an intermediate goal. And then the exhibit will go to Museum of Class for next next fall.

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Mark Titus
Well, that's incredibly cool and I am humbled to be a small part of this thing. And we'll talk a little bit more about how we all got connected. But let's go to the beginning of this thing. Tell us your story. How did you come into the work that you do and what what is it about this work that you do that keeps you going and keeps your fire lit day after day?

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Joseph Rossano
Well, it's it's really quite simple. I grew up in a family where my my my father was an outdoorsman. He was also a scientist. And most of my life was spent viewing the world using the scientific process and sort of sort of observing and trying to understand why things happened in the way they happen in repeatable ways. And I thought, you know, if I can make art that talks about this thing that I love, which is the natural world, and yet do it in such a way where it isn't necessarily accusatory and negative, which is sort of, you know, sort of it sort of pulls you win in some way, whether it be curiosity or

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Joseph Rossano
beauty, yet it delivers some truth through science where it's not, you know, just an impassioned plea from the artist. It's truly validated. And I thought that I could merge the two disciplines and I don't know, I think I think it's something I have been doing in every facet of my life for a very long time. And it's just evolved to this day.

00:06:14:01 - 00:06:43:11
Joseph Rossano
Now, most of what I do now is giant collaborations, and I think that I can think down through Hooli for having, you know, run the Glass studio during the Tulio Rivera's project, where I had to work with thousands of people, quite literally in factories around the world. And it was it was inspiring to have teams of people come together for a common goal.

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Joseph Rossano
And I certainly feel like a lot of that happening in the work that we've been doing together and then what's happening around salmon today. So that has been sort of a culmination of my my evolution in my personal practice.

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Mark Titus
We're going to hone in on salmon here in just a second. But your art is gorgeous and it involves all kinds of different subjects and all kinds of different mediums. Can you give us a bit of a thumbnail of what your art looks and feels like and what kind of mediums you use?

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Joseph Rossano
Yes, I, I make I make assemblages. So behind me on the walls in the assemblages is glass salmon. There's a Winchester saw with there are pennies from the first at the last minute may decrease in size as we move forward in history. They're all on the backdrop of a single piece intercut from the Douglas fir tree. And this assemblage is is a black botanical timeline juxtaposed by a financial timeline juxtaposed by the object of their demise.

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Joseph Rossano
And the thing that's missing is the fish, hence its transparency. So so I mean, I can look back and you can see the fish up there. So in in my practice now, this piece is about 23 years old in my practice. Now, it's not just a panel that's telling that story. It's an entire gallery space. And and rather than just being me telling that story, I have somehow evolved a successful way in to bringing a lot of people into telling that story.

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Joseph Rossano
I believe that if a lot of people tell the same story about nature and they do so in a beautiful way, then art has the ability to make a real change.

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Mark Titus
I totally agree. And I know this is the confluence where we find each other. So speaking of, we both are obsessed with and have our roots deeply entrenched in fishing. How did fishing in various forms? But especially with a space rod and a fly, inform the work that you do? And and how does it carry through right now in you know, a certainly a a esthetic, but also in kind of an emotional heart wrenching way as well.

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Joseph Rossano
Well, how does use how does fishing inform my my work? You know, this is this could be a really long story. I've been out here.

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Mark Titus
We have time.

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Joseph Rossano
I've been out here since 1987. And when I arrived in 1987, there was no one using where there were a couple of people that were using double handed rods and I began working at Patrick Slide Shop. And one day I was sitting in the shop, got this. Things are functional. I can't believe I'm getting emotional, but I was sitting in the shop one day and this gentleman kept coming into the shop and you know, he would be there on a Friday and he would talk to me about steel and fishing.

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Joseph Rossano
And I was a young guy and I didn't know anything about steel. Interesting. So I was intrigued. And I was working for William Morris up here at the Pilchuck Glass School and then at Patrick's on Friday and sometime Saturday. So I'd see him on Friday. And this one particular Friday, the owner of the place shop comes in and he hears Bob talking to me about how to get steel.

00:10:43:18 - 00:11:07:22
Joseph Rossano
This guy's name is Bob. And so he walked in and he says, Hi, Bob. And then he goes over to the cash register and he's acting like he's quite busy. Bob gets up and he says, Joe, I'll see you next week when I'm back in this area. Well, this gentleman was all I knew was his name was Bob and that he was a heating ventilation inspector for the for the city of Seattle.

00:11:08:00 - 00:11:30:13
Joseph Rossano
So he leaves. And Jim says to me, Do you know who that was? He said, Yeah, that was Bob. He's been coming in for the last two months telling me how to steal a tree. And he goes, That was Bob Strobel. So for those of you who are maybe listening to this podcast, Bob Strobel had, his answer is, is is a renowned steel head fisherman.

00:11:30:15 - 00:11:53:18
Joseph Rossano
And Bob decided that he wanted his wife to go steel industry with him. He was also really good friends with Jimmy Green, who invented the Pearl at Farrell and was a key figure in Fenwick. And then ultimately in the Sage Rod Company. And Bob's wife couldn't cast, so they made a 12 foot double hand to ride for her.

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Joseph Rossano
This was the first double handed ride made by somebody connected to this gadget scene ever. And ultimately, what happened is Joanne, Bob's wife, used that ride very little because it ushered in this entire thing that we now know as gadget casting whole, the whole thing. And I was very fortunate that I also became a member of our Washington Steelhead Fly Fishers, which was the club that was started by Bob for a bunch of steelhead fly fishing outcasts.

00:12:27:16 - 00:13:13:23
Joseph Rossano
And I was taken underneath Bob's wing very early on in my career as an artist and as a fly fisherman. I was actually working as an artist that time. So, you know, so as far as double handed rides and as far as what's happened here on the West Coast, informing my life, you know, that that being in a rain forest and walking through a rainforest to access the river and you know, the color of the light going through, you know, blasting through the moss, that's what, you know, the dark dove on the ground and, you know, the sun coming off of snow covered mountains and then reflecting off of the water and walking up the

00:13:13:23 - 00:13:44:08
Joseph Rossano
beach with a friend of mine who's never been on the Skagit or the South before. You know, all of those things shape this cold, clear thing that I'm trying to represent to people. I want it to be this stark, beautiful, clear thing that is undeniable. And I use mirror in my work because it reflects ourselves and it reflects that sort of gem of an idea.

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Joseph Rossano
So I can keep rambling on it, but that sort of puts a bunch of things together for you.

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Mark Titus
Well, I. I love the visual. You're painting for us. And just dear listener for you who want to kind of a macro view of where we're talking about where we're talking about Washington State, what is now known as Washington State, in the upper left corner of the U.S. And we're talking about specifically the Skagit and the Salk River systems, which are about an hour and a half north of Seattle and flow through the traditional homelands and the current homelands of the SUC, Seattle and the Upper Skagit tribe.

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Mark Titus
And it's a particularly beautiful place that I am now spending a lot more of my life there. As you know, Joe, and you did a really wonderful job of kind of laying that that image work out for us. What is it about the connection with this anatomist fish, with this beautiful being that gives its life up for life to continue?

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Mark Titus
What is it that about that connection in particular with the mechanics of fishing and spearfishing in fine point on it?

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Joseph Rossano
What is the connection between fishing and what specifically?

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Mark Titus
I'm, I'm looking at what it what is that? What is it about this connection with fish through a thin line that motivates you and your art, but also brings this very real sense of place and being and connection when you're fishing the stock and the Seattle and the sorry the the Sorkin's gadget.

00:15:39:00 - 00:16:10:15
Joseph Rossano
So the connection is the water. You would think it's the fish, but it's the water because you see you're standing in the water. You're of water. You know, we we we are surrounded by things that are dependent on on it. Your line is moving through the water and you are hoping that's something that's also in the water with you will intercept it.

00:16:10:17 - 00:16:44:15
Joseph Rossano
It it may be a steelhead, it may be a Dolly Parton, it may be some other creature, it may be a stick. But there's a hook that comes with swinging your your line through that through the water. And most of the time, when you fish for a steelhead, especially when you're fishing in Puget Sound and coastal steelhead, you know, the in the wintertime in particular, the year your interaction or your encounters are pretty low.

00:16:44:17 - 00:17:22:03
Joseph Rossano
So if you are not in love with what's surrounding you, this temperate rainforest, you won't be a steelhead fisherman for very long. You won't be a salmon fisherman for very long. And for me, you know, I spent a lot of my youth in the Catskill Mountains on the quality. There's a certain time of year where the green, the temperature of the green in the spring is the same, whether you're in a temperate rain forest, whether you're on a you know, whether you're in a field in Ireland or whether you were in the Catskill Mountains.

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Joseph Rossano
And I think that I have always been most comfortable when I'm being bathed in that green.

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Mark Titus
I feel you and I share every bit of sentiment that you just dredged up there that is so much about being connected to the water and the water that's moving off the mountain and dripping from the treetops and the tree tips and it is less about catching than it is connecting. And what a what a joy that is.

00:17:58:20 - 00:18:26:23
Mark Titus
Well, this I know in formed in great part your I think your most current and most massive piece of art that you are working as a living project right now called school and I've been lightly tethered to this for a few years now thanks to meeting you in person a couple of years ago at the Tacoma Museum of Glass.

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Mark Titus
What is this project? How did it come about and where are we with it right now?

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Joseph Rossano
So the project really is born out of this gadget river. I, I as I said earlier, I've been here since 1987 and I live in Arlington, Washington, 35 miles from Darrington. And I caught and I and I drive to Darrington along the north Fork of the Stillaguamish, which was written about by Zane Gray and tales of freshwater fishing and by Roderick Brown.

00:19:13:03 - 00:19:47:02
Joseph Rossano
I live in a steelhead holding land and that makes my skin prickly right now, just seeing it, I'm surrounded by it and surrounded by what was a temperate rainforest and in some places remains a temperate rain forest. School is designed to show the world how a group of people can come together and how stakeholders that might not otherwise sit at the table will work together to make something beautiful.

00:19:47:04 - 00:20:28:16
Joseph Rossano
Making an object of art with the community that acts as a bright, shiny object, a hope that we can make a difference, which is what school is. It's a series of mirrors made by hundreds of people across the globe, and it's composed of what we hope will be over 2500 blown glass fish. So one would go into a studio and participate in this in this making process by working with glass makers who've gifted their studio to this project and this message to the world.

00:20:28:18 - 00:21:06:12
Joseph Rossano
The goal was to start out that way and to pull in scientists and indigenous people to tell their story to this. This this growing school of fish becomes this growing message. And what's happened, thanks in part to to you and to some others like Shane Anderson and and Derrick Klein is this piece has been documented and that's precipitated involvement by Chris mayor and the Smithsonian a joint venture to really enhance the citizen science component to it.

00:21:06:12 - 00:22:08:09
Joseph Rossano
So this is really a multimedia performance of science, merging with art, merging with awareness. And I all I can say is I understand that there is a giant interconnectedness in the world, you know, as we understand the importance of biodiversity and how things are built on top of one another, it it be it becomes confusing for some, but for me it just seems so normal and so the goal with this project is has been to grow this sort of diversity through our science community and at this point now, our community has grown to include the Atlantic Salmon Trust, the Missing Salmon Alliance, the Wild Salmon Center, Trout Unlimited studios across the globe, universities, all of

00:22:08:09 - 00:22:32:04
Joseph Rossano
whom are willing to make fish and participate in telling this story. Because what we're doing is we're showing that if you care enough about the end result, you can work together and you can make something beautiful. It's really that it's really that simple. And that's that's where we are. That's where we are right now. And I'm really excited about what's happening next week.

00:22:32:05 - 00:23:13:08
Joseph Rossano
I'm also a little scared to death because, you know, this is the first of the second part of the child. It sounds odd, but I can't say it's my second child. But but I also I also cannot thank all of the people who have just rallied around this basic idea. You know, this has gone from an a a proposal with Ben Cobb at the Museum of Glass, 75 people coming down or 50 glass or is coming down to make fish with us.

00:23:13:10 - 00:23:45:18
Joseph Rossano
You being invited, you know, others being invited to other studios to now, I don't know. We'll probably have another 100 people from across the world or more. I think in Japan, when we make fish, you should all tune in to the website and you'll receive an invite if you register with Mark. And it was wild. In Japan, I think they have 13 different benches and Hiroshi says, So how many fish do you think we need, Joe?

00:23:45:18 - 00:23:58:10
Joseph Rossano
And I said, Well, I don't know. And he was. We have 13 different benches. We have 13 benches. We can make a lot of fish. So I think the Japanese component of of the school is going to be quite substantial.

00:23:58:12 - 00:24:51:14
Mark Titus
That is so exciting. It is just it is hopeful to think about people working in concert over these few days together across the globe to make something beautiful. You mentioned also citizen science, and we got to experience a little part of that together this last winter and in the fall of 2020 into the winter of 2021, working with folks in your home waters and the Salk and the Skagit with a group called the Glacier Peak Institute, can you give us a little bit of idea of what that collaboration look like and how that ties into the living art and the citizen science piece of this?

00:24:51:16 - 00:25:23:11
Joseph Rossano
Yes. So initially before COVID, we were supposed to take the show on the road, meaning that myself and Ben Cobb, Andy Lawrence and some others were scheduled to travel to Sweden last year to take part in the class conference in Sweden. We were then going to make fish in different studios, another two studios in Sweden, two in Norway, two in the UK.

00:25:23:13 - 00:25:57:10
Joseph Rossano
And then we were going to silver all of those fish and we were working with the Nord Norsk Museum and Tromso to exhibit a Scandinavian European school which would then join the school here. And we were working with Celia's husband Carl, who worked for the Department of Fisheries, managing or monitoring sea trout in Atlantic salmon populations in the, I believe, the largest river in Europe, which is the tender river.

00:25:57:12 - 00:26:25:18
Joseph Rossano
And so I, I had spoken with Chris Mayer from the Smithsonian about doing a citizen science project, creating a citizen science project where we would collect DNA. And we discussed well, we'd worked on a project before in Tahiti nine years before, and we talked about how the science had changed and it was really easy to do and non-intrusive.

00:26:25:20 - 00:27:02:09
Joseph Rossano
So we were set to do this with coral and, and indigenous people from, from Norway, Sami people, and COVID hit. So we couldn't do it. And I hadn't received the invitation from the mayor of Darrington, Dan Rankin, to do a project with to create a project with Glacier Creek Institute. So I you know, I spoke to Dan and he put me in touch with his nephew Oak, who I know we're good friends.

00:27:02:09 - 00:27:24:05
Joseph Rossano
And I said, okay, what do you think? And he said, Well, I think we can do this. So sure enough, myself, Chris Mayer and and Joe Crane of John Adventures, who they're the lab that's doing the DNA and cataloging all the information, they said, Yeah, let's do this. And I said, well, we need we need to get by.

00:27:24:05 - 00:27:46:15
Joseph Rossano
And so I spoke with Kirk Kramer, who is a retired Department of Fish and Wildlife, steelhead biologist for Region four. And we were talking about this gadget and and I said, Do you think we can get a DNA scientist from the Department of Fish and Wildlife? And Sarah Brown found out what we were doing, and she's the head of environmental DNA for the state.

00:27:46:15 - 00:28:17:20
Joseph Rossano
And she said yes. So the four of us put together this this this group of people. We had a host of meetings back study that we would create that would allow for some sort of correlation between streamflow and environmental DNA. And for those of you listening, I will say this. I am not a scientist. You know, Yes, I have studied science and I've I've written a few scientific abstracts when I was studying psychology and biology.

00:28:18:01 - 00:28:56:07
Joseph Rossano
But I'm not a scientist. That said it did help me in in getting everybody together because we were able to create a study that would allow us over two years to determine if you can make a correlation between the and the DNA that comes off of everything. So when you are standing in your house where you're sitting on a chair or you're walking through the glen or through the grass, you're always sloughing off a little a little of yourself is always coming off.

00:28:56:09 - 00:29:32:18
Joseph Rossano
And that goes into the environment and it can be collected. It's called environmental DNA. And and so we went through this program of describing what it is, and Oak stepped up big time. Carly Studley stepped up big time. Glacier Peak, they were on it. They put together, you know, myself. And then Curt picked a sampling stations in Oak and they put together a program that lasted for three months, 40 days of sampling.

00:29:32:18 - 00:30:13:01
Joseph Rossano
We're doing another 40 next year and the data will be, you know, evaluated and hopefully we will have found out that we've made a difference. But the real thing the real difference here is I didn't collect the DNA. You're Mark, you did. You collected a little DNA. But the thing is, is that kids, disadvantaged kids in rural areas who would not otherwise have the opportunity to understand that there is a life for them outside of where they are and would not have the ability to look at other things as potential directions for their lives.

00:30:13:03 - 00:30:36:02
Joseph Rossano
Had that opportunity. So there they are, quite literally contributing to the database of understanding at the Smithsonian, which then benefits the world and, you know, sort of to be a nine or 12 year old kid and understand, you know, once you understand that you're actually doing that, it gives you a different sense of purpose. Or I'd like to think it gives you a different sense of purpose.

00:30:36:04 - 00:30:51:01
Joseph Rossano
And then that information informs the entire performance, the entire process of what school is. So it really is it's it's a merging of science and community and awareness.

00:30:51:03 - 00:31:31:15
Mark Titus
I love that it requires hands from the community and folks that are not necessarily given that opportunity all the time. And I'm I've become enamored of this phrase recently. We all live downstream. And in thinking about that, not just as a physical river made of water, but of time, we are at a moment right now where the rest of human history is going to be affected and judge what we did at this moment.

00:31:31:17 - 00:32:16:18
Mark Titus
And so what I gleaned from coming on board with that project with you and filming a bit of that with kids from the Seattle tribe, with kids from Darrington who have experienced trauma and the joy that came into their eyes and spread across their faces and extended into their parents as well, from any and all socio political economic sides of the spectrum, those people are deciding what's going to happen at the headwaters of this river of time we're in right now.

00:32:16:19 - 00:32:42:19
Mark Titus
And watching that joy and that sense of ownership and serenity come across these kids based on the wonder of this place, this gorgeous, very mysterious, beautiful place that they live in, that that was it for me. That was the magic that was the reason to get involved. And by the way, we do have a a short piece about that.

00:32:42:19 - 00:33:04:12
Mark Titus
And you can watch it up on our YouTube channel. If you go to YouTube and look up Ava's Wild, that's the word save spelled backwards Wild. You can find our channel and look up the Glacier Peak Institute video. It's really something to see. So first of all, Joe, thank you for bringing me into that. It was a joy.

00:33:04:14 - 00:33:45:20
Mark Titus
Thank you for the ongoing and continuing work, the ability to connect together here with this very cool project that we're doing here together. So, Joe, with this notion of we all live downstream, we have some big problems we're facing here. The Skagit, of course, is facing some big problems. The stock, by extension with its Steelhead runs. But we've also got climate change and pollution and extracting too many resources that before we can replenish them.

00:33:45:22 - 00:34:00:08
Mark Titus
Where does a person start? How does a person be a part of this bigger movement and take some agency right where they live? What's your prescription for that?

00:34:00:10 - 00:34:29:06
Joseph Rossano
Well, you know, to coin a phrase, that that is actually the title of another exhibit I have, which is actually at the Olympic National Park right now. It's called Conservation From Here, which is conservation starts wherever you are here is right in front of you writing your feet. And you have to be aware of what you're surrounded by and not take any of it for granted.

00:34:29:08 - 00:35:02:21
Joseph Rossano
Because when you wake up the morning, you have a cup of coffee, you put cream in that coffee or whatever that cow had to live on land that might have been a forest that was now cleared. And this impervious surface that that's a grass field is not a bad thing. It's not as bad as some other things. But the fact that the thing that I'm saying is in order to sustain us, the motor, sustain humanity, there is a there is a cost to the natural world.

00:35:02:23 - 00:35:34:14
Joseph Rossano
And as we grow, we have to create ways to sustain growth. And I think right now, without, you know, going dark, I think we have to ask we have to review how far we go. I think we need to I think we need to make some really hard decisions. You know, you could people have asked me, so were we better off 50 years ago than we are now?

00:35:34:15 - 00:36:05:03
Joseph Rossano
Well, if I am a steelhead fisherman, I'm going to say we were absolutely perfect years ago. There are a lot where steel steelhead around. There were a lot less people around. There's a lot more green space, you know. So it's I think I think conservation starts and awareness starts wherever you are and whatever is around you. I have a wetland in my backyard that is protected by super, you know, state environmental Protection Act.

00:36:05:05 - 00:36:18:08
Joseph Rossano
There are Red Lake frogs in there. There's an endangered species in my backyard and I'm responsible for not doing anything that might impact them. That's my here. What's your here? You know.

00:36:18:10 - 00:36:50:00
Mark Titus
I just absolutely feel that and that resonates completely with me. You are in the process of you're right in the middle of this vision that is coming through you. And now other people. I'm included in that and grateful for it. But let's go a little further. How do you envision sustainable collaboration amongst people around the world working to save what we love together?

00:36:50:02 - 00:36:58:11
Mark Titus
What's your 16 chapel kind of version of this of this vision? What does that look like?

00:36:58:13 - 00:37:21:05
Joseph Rossano
Well, I think we need to get in touch with the pope and ask him if he will allow us to hang a symbol of Christianity in the Sistine Chapel. I think hanging the school in the Sistine Chapel is a great place to start because it's symbolic of feeding a population. And if the fish go away, we don't feed the population.

00:37:21:05 - 00:37:54:08
Joseph Rossano
So how do we find, you know, how do we find an equilibrium? And I mean that seriously and I mean it figuratively. So we we have to learn how to integrate our understanding. And it's difficult. It's really difficult because I recognize that people who have a different worldview than I might have are not bad people and that their reality is shape.

00:37:54:08 - 00:38:33:01
Joseph Rossano
We're completely different worldview. So if you say, okay, they have a different worldview, this is a fact to them. It may be based in some other logic that I'm used to using, but they believe this. So how do we believe the same thing? How do we come up with believing the same thing? And I think if we strive to do that in our work, you know, and I mean, as a filmmaker, as an artist, I think the ability to sustain collaborations over a long period of time are positive, are possible.

00:38:33:03 - 00:38:54:19
Joseph Rossano
And I think I think there's a constant tweaking of of the vernacular between, you know, the people that you are involved in the collaboration. As time progresses as as it as it progresses generationally and and as awareness changes.

00:38:54:21 - 00:39:21:22
Mark Titus
Can you speak a little bit about collaborating with indigenous artists, scientists and elders and what that process has been like? And also how critical to you feel a continuation of that kind of collaboration and even an escalation of that type of collaboration with Indigenous wisdom is from here on forward?

00:39:22:00 - 00:39:54:15
Joseph Rossano
Well, I feel really fortunate that when I when I moved here and began fishing on the Skagit and the Salk and the Stillaguamish, that I became friends with two biologists in particular that work for this gadget system cooperative. We had a meeting, you and I had a meeting and went fishing with Scott Schuyler, and that was precipitated by my friendship with a close friend of Scott's.

00:39:54:15 - 00:41:02:13
Joseph Rossano
And his name is Keith Wyman, and, you know, people who love fish, people who are fish, people are the same in their soul. They're the same. Right. And when you remove when you create a situation in which you remove any of the other distractions, people can communicate. And I and for me, the same stories in the same desires to protect fish, to have fish, to protect the land, you know, to celebrate the land, to worship it are the same in me as I hear related by somebody like Scott Schuyler.

00:41:02:13 - 00:41:41:13
Joseph Rossano
For example, who in that, you know, when we were in the boat that, you know, he said, When I was a kid, I was a you know, I was living in a camp and Cockerham Island when I was 16 years old in fishing for a fish, six month fishing for salmon, six months out of the year. And I could do it, you know, And I mean, let's face it, anybody who is affected by fish in that way and there's at least two of us on this call, given the opportunity at 16 to give your whole life to fishing, you would do it.

00:41:41:15 - 00:42:07:16
Joseph Rossano
So. So I guess I guess the thing is, for me, I do not want to do anything other than create an opportunity through this project and through my work to allow for everybody to say what they think. Because ultimately, if we're making something beautiful, people are there because they want something beautiful in return. And that may sound hokey.

00:42:07:18 - 00:42:56:17
Joseph Rossano
This school of fish, the real school of fish is a gorgeous, beautiful, life sustaining thing. Whether it's sustaining your soul through the making of art or sustaining your your your life, you know, your true life through sustenance and the presence of the fish indicate a health of the planet. I think that working with, you know, working with Service Nation, working with, you know, Lawrence Joseph, working with the Sox, who I tried I received the Ford Motor Car Fellowship to take part to archeological project there 15 years ago.

00:42:56:19 - 00:43:33:04
Joseph Rossano
Had a very core level we're all the same. And I want everybody to understand through this project and through the opportunity to speak freely that we're all the same and that we can work together to make a difference. And having that blessing, you know, being welcomed in to these these, you know, usual and accustomed areas that are Upper Skagit or Sauk and having, you know, tribal members willing to participate.

00:43:33:04 - 00:43:57:05
Joseph Rossano
Willing participants. Yes. Come and visit us and we're going to come and visit you. I just I mean, it's just like working with the scientist. It's the roots of this this emotional historical valuation of human presence and how we can go forward together. I mean, I see it on a 55,000 foot view level. I don't necessarily see it on a three foot level.

00:43:57:07 - 00:44:19:04
Joseph Rossano
And I think that as long as I'm working towards allowing the 55,000 foot level to act as an umbrella for the rest of these projects that I do, then how it needs to get disseminated can be done honestly by the people that are actively working to make sense, working in there in a in a given area.

00:44:19:06 - 00:44:49:20
Mark Titus
Absolutely. I think it's a beautiful place to park it for today. This is, of course, an ongoing and living piece of art, a working project that encompasses multiple mediums and a scientific approach. And what isn't necessarily a scientific approach is the following three questions I'm going to ask you. But everybody gets them and everybody's got a very fun and different response to them.

00:44:49:20 - 00:45:10:11
Mark Titus
So here's the first one. If you were in the path of, let's say, one of these beloved rivers really flooded and your your house was about to be taken away with it, we're pretending here. What is the one physical thing that you would pull out of the house before the flood took it away?

00:45:10:13 - 00:45:11:23
Joseph Rossano
My wife.

00:45:12:01 - 00:45:22:12
Mark Titus
Not including, you know, not including loved ones, including including pets. But the one physical thing, if you could only take one.

00:45:22:14 - 00:45:53:00
Joseph Rossano
Wow. One physical thing. I don't know. It's a really good question. One physical thing. If my house was in the in the path of a river, what is the one physical thing I would take? I would prob that's a good that's I can't come up with an answer. I mean that the immediate answer was my wife. I know my car keys so I could drive the car out of there, but maybe I don't, I don't know.

00:45:53:00 - 00:45:57:07
Joseph Rossano
I need to be able to get to where I definitely need to go. So maybe the car.

00:45:57:09 - 00:46:16:00
Mark Titus
Practical for an artist and beautiful in its own way. How about now in a metaphysical sense? What are the two spiritual things or the two composite things that make Joe Joe that you would take with you?

00:46:16:02 - 00:46:27:11
Joseph Rossano
What are the two things that that I would take with me? Well, my sense of humor and my patients.

00:46:27:13 - 00:46:39:00
Mark Titus
Excellent. And I can attest to both. And lastly, is there anything that you'd let get washed away be purified in that great deluge?

00:46:39:02 - 00:47:04:19
Joseph Rossano
Yeah, I would want I would want to let all the regret of not doing a good enough job on a host of things that I always say to myself, you know, you could have done a better job. I'd like to let that Catholic guilt go away. You know, I don't know that it's easy to do that, but I'd like the Catholic guilt, to be fair enough.

00:47:04:21 - 00:47:21:03
Mark Titus
I'm sure you are not alone out there. Okay, So if you would give us the the lineup briefly for next week again, and what are we going to see and how do we find you?

00:47:21:05 - 00:47:46:12
Joseph Rossano
So at 10:00, everything is in Pacific Daylight time. So and when I don't remember all the times, but I think we we kick off with a pre-conference. Welcome to the project with Sam Nation and then a screening of The Wild. I think we're having a small panel for you, monitoring the panel.

00:47:46:13 - 00:47:47:08
Mark Titus
Yes, absolutely.

00:47:47:11 - 00:48:19:20
Joseph Rossano
And then the following day, we work with with Urban Glass in Brooklyn, and they're going to have a drawing workshop with some kids. And we are going to draw fish. And then Mike, Jess and the team at Urban Glass will make some salmon in the glass studio. Then we will go to star Works North Carolina And Star Star Works Craft Center is our host for the entire project for this virtual project.

00:48:20:02 - 00:49:01:11
Joseph Rossano
And then we'll make fish with the team there. That team is headed by Joe Grant. Joe will actually act as the emcee along with myself through OP for the entire length of of the gas conference. The following day is our big day. So we start out on at five in the morning with James Devereaux and Kathryn Huskey Devereaux and Huskey and Wiltshire, and they will be joined by Peter Landale of the Missing Salmon Alliance and a couple of other surprise guests who we will learn.

00:49:01:12 - 00:49:26:14
Joseph Rossano
You'll have to tune in and see, and they will make fish. And then from there, we will go to the Museum of Class, where you and I will be there with Oakley Brookes from from the Wild Salmon Center. Hopefully Scott's going to be able to make it down. He'll bring some people with him and we'll squeeze some fish.

00:49:26:16 - 00:50:06:03
Joseph Rossano
And then the MOG team, and that includes Gabe cleaning and and Ben Cobb and Sarah. God. And anyhow, it's a big day. And then from there we'll go on to. To Osaka, Japan. No, no, no, no, no, no. Then we go to Australia and Canterbury University, National University of Australia, Canberra, where we'll make fish with Ned as designated as she and her team.

00:50:06:05 - 00:50:34:12
Joseph Rossano
And then we'll roll into Osaka, Japan, and Hiroshi Amano, who who is a great glassmaker will make the do a demonstration of a koi and then we'll go ahead and his team will be making salmon for the project during the, you know, continuously during the two hour demo. Then the following day which is Saturday, that or Friday, the 21st.

00:50:34:14 - 00:51:23:20
Joseph Rossano
Is it right. Friday I can't remember. But anyhow, on the 21st we will start out with silliest. Coughlan in Trump's in Norway and she will be making fish with her team at blast. And then her husband Carl will will show different videos about salmon conservation and salmon monitoring in Norway, Atlantic salmon and sea trout in Norway. And then we'll end up in Antrim, Ireland with Spencer and then Benefield and Spencer Glass and we'll make some fish there and they will show some films of the river bush and Salmon Conservation in northern Ireland.

00:51:23:21 - 00:51:52:06
Joseph Rossano
And then we finish with our very own Salmon Nation spiritual leader. I say that with love and sarcasm because she is wonderful. Donna morton and the head of the Missing Salmon Lands, Peter Landale. And we're going to see a special movie, a preview of a movie, which will this will be the first time it's ever been shown of salmon in hot water.

00:51:52:08 - 00:52:44:23
Joseph Rossano
And it's I can't remember. There are two special guests that are going to show up for that. So you can go to the website, the Salmon School website, you can go to the events page, and there's a section there where people can donate. We will have those live links probably by the end of the day tomorrow, where you can sign up and participate in the in the project and it's it's we'd love to have all of you so the website is WW w dot the salmon school dot com and Mark will be sending this this video out along with a link to the page and link for registration.

00:52:45:01 - 00:53:07:07
Mark Titus
Yep. We will have all of this registration info. This is all free and it will be appearing on our social media channels at EVAs Wild at the wild film. And you'll also, if you want to sign up for our newsletter, we'll be distributing it there and all you have to do for that is go to Eva's wild dot com.

00:53:07:07 - 00:53:30:23
Mark Titus
That's the word save spelled backwards wildcard and click on the Connect button and sign up for the newsletter and you'll be in community. Joseph Rossano You're a good friend, you're an amazing artist and I am so grateful and thrilled to be part of this in a small way, and I can't wait to see what's ahead on the trail as we continue down it together.

00:53:30:23 - 00:53:51:14
Mark Titus
So thank you for being with us today. And I can't wait for next few days of incredible sights from all around the world and such a such a delight to be connected. Can't wait to see you in the coming days and more to come down the trail. And so long for now.

00:53:51:16 - 00:53:58:10
Joseph Rossano
Thank you. Thanks, everybody, for tuning in and I'm very honored.

00:53:58:12 - 00:54:08:12
Music
How do you save what you love? How do you save what you love?

00:54:08:12 - 00:54:39:09
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening to save what you love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts. You can check out photos and links from this episode at evaswild.com. While there, you can join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter, you'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way.

00:54:39:11 - 00:55:18:11
Mark Titus
That's at evaswild.com. That's the word Save spelled backwards Wild Tor.com. This episode was produced by Tyler White and edited by Patrick Troll. Original music was created by Whiskey Class. This podcast is a collaboration between Ava's Wild Stories and Salmon Nation and was recorded on the homelands of the Duwamish. People. We'd like to recognize these lands and waters and their significance for the people who lived and continued to live in this region whose practices and spiritualities were and are tied to the land in the water, and whose lives continue to enrich and develop in relationship to the land waters and other inhabitants today.