Save What You Love with Mark Titus

00:00:01:12 - 00:00:21:19
Mark Titus
Welcome to the Save What You Love podcast. I'm your host, Mark Titus. On today's show, we get to meet my friend, Dr. Jennifer Galvin. Jen is a scientist trained at Yale Medical School and the Harvard School of Public Health in Epidemiology. Exposure and Risk, which, as you might gather, is a big deal right now with the current pandemic we're going through.

00:00:21:21 - 00:00:44:12
Mark Titus
Besides being a venerable scientist, Jen wears a lot of other hats. They're all rooted in one thing, though, one maxim that she carries with her every day. Protect the vulnerable that comes through in her work as a filmmaker, as well as a bridge builder, a scientist, and a voice for impact and change. We get into all of Jen's work today, and I'm hoping that you enjoy the show.

00:00:44:14 - 00:01:03:05
Mark Titus
If you are enjoying the show and you want to go a little bit deeper, feel free to reach out through evaswild.com. That's the word save spelled backwards Wild dot com. And click on the connect button. You can sign up for our newsletter and become a part of this community. Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoy the show today and we'll see you down the trail.

00:01:03:07 - 00:01:39:11
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:01:39:13 - 00:01:44:02
Mark Titus
Dr. Jen Galvin, welcome. Where are you coming to us from today?

00:01:44:04 - 00:01:52:23
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Hi, Mark. Good afternoon. Coming to you live from Port Washington, New York, which is on the north shore of Long Island.

00:01:53:01 - 00:01:54:19
Mark Titus
What are you doing out there?

00:01:54:21 - 00:02:14:03
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
I am just kind of hunkered down a little bit with my folks and the dogs and getting through tons of work, lots of plates spinning the past two years. And this year has been no different. And looking forward to celebrating my dad's 80th birthday.

00:02:14:05 - 00:02:29:00
Mark Titus
my God, that's amazing. My dad just turned 75 this summer and it was a big deal. Honestly, it was. That's quite a milestone, getting up into that world, into that realm. You are. You've earned it for sure.

00:02:29:02 - 00:02:42:02
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
For sure. Turning to the turning, the eight zero is is not for the weary, but also completely. I know he's completely grateful for it, too, especially given that our moment in history.

00:02:42:04 - 00:03:03:09
Mark Titus
That's so great that you're spending time with him and spending time, you know, taking care of yourself, too, in the same regard. And I've certainly felt a bit of that calling and done a bit of that myself this summer. I hung out of my folks place for a couple three weeks this summer, recorded a podcast from there, as a matter of fact, up on would be Island.

00:03:03:09 - 00:03:23:18
Mark Titus
And I don't know, I think that if we come out of this whole crazy thing during COVID with one thing, you know, that's positive, maybe it is that, that it is sort of a great reset, that we're really kind of fundamentally thinking about what we're doing with our lives in a different way that might be better.

00:03:23:20 - 00:03:41:04
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
I hope so. I hope so. I also recognize that given the work that I do, I have know extra privilege of staying in one place and doing my work off of the computer that a lot of people don't have. So, you know that that I do not take for granted right now.

00:03:41:06 - 00:04:00:12
Mark Titus
Likewise. And that's a great point. So let's start out here today with getting to where you are now. Like, what is your story? How did you come to this place that you are now? How did you get into the work that feeds your soul and what keeps you going?

00:04:00:14 - 00:04:25:23
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah, all really good questions and things that I've been thinking a lot about the past few few years. Given given that the COVID pandemic. So, you know, I'm a public health scientist by training. So, you know, things like pandemics are things that I used to think about in great detail. But now, you know, in recent times less so as a filmmaker.

00:04:26:01 - 00:04:49:09
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
But I guess what I've been reflecting on most the past two years is how much my sort of academic training as a public health doctor has overlapped truly with my passion for storytelling and I guess making, you know, even more generally about environmental storytelling, which is really what I love to do the most, and thinking just very broadly about that, what that means.

00:04:49:09 - 00:05:14:09
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Environmental storytelling, you know, really means thinking about systems, not just the natural world, but also the built environment and social structures and really thinking more widely about what it means to be on this planet, how we're a part of it, and how our health is connected to the health of the environment.

00:05:14:11 - 00:05:51:21
Mark Titus
You have you been at this a little bit, and I know that you've got some really fantastic background in your education, and a lot of folks like me would look and feel. I honestly feel a little little intimidated by the to the level of education that you've you've given yourself and and yet you've been kind of a disrupter in kind of taking the degrees that you pursued and kind of turned them upside down in the conventional thinking of the implementation of the degrees that you pursued.

00:05:51:23 - 00:05:53:14
Mark Titus
How did you go about doing that?

00:05:53:16 - 00:06:14:07
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Well, I think, you know, looking back, it seems easy and kind of a very streamlined process. But in the moment, you know, when I was in academia for so long and working to stitch together these very unlikely arenas, you know, I really wanted to work in the environmental sciences, but I also really wanted to work in medicine and public health.

00:06:14:07 - 00:06:46:16
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And, you know, in the nineties that was kind of weird. People didn't know what box to put me in and and I didn't really know what box to put myself in either. But I just kind of kept forging my own path. And I'm a I'm a water bug I grew up on in here in Long Island and really started focusing more and more on our connections between ocean health and human health and and was able to kind of connect those dots and had a couple of people that I respected as mentors who wanted to think about those things, too.

00:06:46:18 - 00:07:09:19
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And so one thing kind of led to the next in academia and setting together these online worlds of ocean health and human health. And then, you know, fast forward living in Boston and being at Harvard, at the Harvard School of Public Health and I Boston is such an incredible documentary hub. And I just became more and more interested in storytelling and in visual storytelling.

00:07:10:01 - 00:07:32:21
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
I always loved cameras. And, you know, again, I think it's like anything else, you just start learning and doing. And I was able to volunteer at the New England Aquarium and some of their video projects around climate change and learned, you know, how do you put together a production team who does what? What does it mean to be a producer, director, writer, a cinematographer?

00:07:32:23 - 00:07:55:00
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And then in 2006, I took a leap of faith. I wanted to start my first documentary film in the Bahamas about the paradox of islanders not knowing how to swim and simultaneously was able to do a residency in film and documentary filmmaking in Cuba. So, you know, looking back, it kind of all makes sense to me how things laid out.

00:07:55:00 - 00:08:12:15
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
But I look back now, I'm like, Holy shit, I really I left Harvard or that career path in academia to go do a documentary residency in Cuba and just start. I had a bike and a camera in the Bahamas, and I started making my first film.

00:08:12:17 - 00:08:39:06
Mark Titus
So this is not atypical with people that are on this show, including me, that water seems to be the source point for a lot of us. And that seems particularly true with you. I mean, when we're talking about your education, you you did your pre-med undergrad at Brown, You were trained in epidemiology exposure and risk at Yale and then, of course, the Harvard School of Public Health that you mentioned.

00:08:39:08 - 00:08:52:04
Mark Titus
But before all that, it sounds like there was an underlying passion and an underlying motivation to be connected to water. Is that fair to say?

00:08:52:06 - 00:09:17:19
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yes, Fair to say there to say it just you know, water has always been a big part of my life. I my mom grew up on boats. Her family, they were swordfish or people. And they would spend half the year on their boats or fishing in and around Martha's Vineyard, which is hard to do now. And my dad grew up, you know, he was a really good sailor, like messing around on boats.

00:09:17:19 - 00:09:45:06
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And I just I don't know what it was about me. I don't think my sister and my brother had the same affinity for the water that I do. I just don't know. It's just been something that I've always wanted to be a part of. And as I got older and my interest in science and I was good at science, I really, you know, my just level of curiosity just kept expanding and expanding and asking that big, big old question of what if what if the oceans health is connected to our health?

00:09:45:08 - 00:10:05:11
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And I, of course, I knew that was true. Looking at people that were fisher people in my family or thinking about wanting to go swimming and getting an earache as a kid. So, you know, I don't know. I think for some reason I just always really was quite focused and in love with the ocean.

00:10:05:13 - 00:10:26:21
Mark Titus
Messing around with boats is a fantastic waste of time. And we'll get back to a little bit more about some of the things you're doing with that later. But I know that, you know, I've been thinking about this a bit lately. Like, what if I were to boil down sort of, you know, the core of the work that I'm trying to do in in a sentence or two.

00:10:26:21 - 00:10:56:03
Mark Titus
And, you know, I just keep coming back to these three words, do good work and, you know, come what may, no matter what the flavor of the day, as the critics are doing out there, competition, whatever that means, none of that matters if you're doing good work that you feel in love with, you have a maxim that I've gleaned, It states to protect the vulnerable.

00:10:56:05 - 00:11:02:07
Mark Titus
Where where did that come from in you? How was that instilled in you and how do you practice that today?

00:11:02:09 - 00:11:25:19
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Well, I think, you know, that's kind of a tried and true public health maxim, protect the vulnerable. And I think the flip side of that, being able to think about those that are most vulnerable around us, be it people, plants, animals, waterways, is that you know, when you do that, you also are saying in the same breath that little things make a big difference.

00:11:25:21 - 00:11:55:14
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And you can have you can have big impacts kind of at the margins of existence. And and that's kind of what I've always held on to. You can protect the vulnerable, but the goal is really to make things better. Right? And to to shift perception, to shift health outcomes, you know, whatever whatever it is with the given project or the given purpose of what your what you're looking to do.

00:11:55:16 - 00:12:02:12
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
But I think, you know, always thinking about the vulnerable is a good way to approach life.

00:12:02:14 - 00:12:32:20
Mark Titus
And to ground the work that you do. I mean, because, Jen, you have mad skills. You have skills as a scientist, as a communicator, as a bridge builder in the social impact realm. What of these? And especially, you know, you're wonderful filmmaker. I mean, that's what brought us together in the course of time. And in the course of your experience, what has what have you observed that you feel brings the most impact vis a vis all of these tools that you use?

00:12:32:22 - 00:13:05:08
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah, it sounds kind of generic. I think anyone in business would tell you, but I really do think it's about relationship building. My favorite thing to do is to introduce people or issues that you wouldn't necessarily see together. Sort of unlikely bandmates and watching relationships really blossom out of, you know, people who have very different perspectives on a problem and or issues that people would have never put in the same sentence.

00:13:05:10 - 00:13:28:08
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So that's that's what I found kind of to be most, most impact, though, is to really asking the what ifs. You know, maybe it's more of a mad scientist or the chef, a good chef would do that, right, putting together ingredients that maybe, maybe don't always are seen to go together.

00:13:28:10 - 00:13:59:04
Mark Titus
I feel like experience is, you know, clearly the best teacher and especially in that realm of of bringing people together and bringing people together with experiences that will make a difference. I mean, in sort of the Teddy Roosevelt fashion with John Muir and, you know, going out into the country to feel it, to breathe the air, to feel the air on your skin and see the stars overhead.

00:13:59:06 - 00:14:22:16
Mark Titus
You know, I think that that's a clearly I agree with you that the impact does come from connecting people and connecting people to to greater ideas that get them outside of themselves, maybe in the every day to day kind of life that they're in. Given all this and all of the things that you all the hats that you wear, what what do you love the most?

00:14:22:18 - 00:14:27:13
Mark Titus
Like what brings you the most joy and satisfaction to do?

00:14:27:15 - 00:15:03:19
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
That's a good question. I've been lucky where I just always kind of had the personality. I'm a pretty I'm a pretty even keeled person. And I not that all the time, but I do. I do kind of know myself well enough to know that I tend to approach problems and success similarly. And so my some of my greatest joy has come from watching other people thrive and to watch people succeed and some crazy idea that they asked me for help with.

00:15:03:21 - 00:15:26:21
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So that brings me a lot of joy, especially with working with. I work with a lot of young people every year through my through foundation work, I mentor our 32 undergraduates every year. And, you know, it's a it's a scary, crazy time for college kids right now. I really questioning, you know, what the value of education is and what they're paying for.

00:15:26:21 - 00:15:49:04
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Why are they going to college for four years? And it's been really interesting and inspiring to hear their takes on, you know, how they're approaching problem and how they're navigating the world, how they find inspiration and joy and and getting up, putting their feet on the ground every day and going to work when they don't really know. You know, it's hard for any of us to plan right now.

00:15:49:06 - 00:15:51:14
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So, yeah.

00:15:51:16 - 00:16:14:06
Mark Titus
It is. I mean, we've had this global pandemic in the way of kind of moving forward. And it's it's been a start stop kind of thing. And I think it's got a lot of most of us frustrated, honestly, you know, in terms of where are we? Where are we standing? It's one foot in, one foot out. And you mentioned problems earlier and solving problems.

00:16:14:08 - 00:16:38:02
Mark Titus
And clearly your experience in the world of epidemiology lends an authoritative voice to where the hell are we with with COVID? And how in your mind, did this epidemic turn into a political weapon that has seemingly mired us in, you know, a place where we don't seem to be able to go forward or backward?

00:16:38:04 - 00:17:04:20
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah, I think, you know, this is a this is so many our many our conversation. But I if I can try to distill it down and connect it to to what we do as filmmaking filmmakers, I think it really comes down to some of the story framing, you know, this idea of pitting, pitting the sort of us and them or you're either going to try to fight COVID or you're going to fight for your freedom.

00:17:04:21 - 00:17:39:01
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
You know, I think this this idea of this binary us and them framing of a pandemic has been very dangerous and and will increasingly become. So This is you know, this is not the last pandemic that we're going to face. And just more generally, you know, I, I question every day like, how are we going to think about prevention, whether it's disease or thinking about Bristol Bay, You know, how are we going to think about collaboration like those two words?

00:17:39:01 - 00:17:49:08
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Prevention and collaboration are are you know, are really important. And I think we're we're failing abysmally at both of them.

00:17:49:10 - 00:18:14:16
Mark Titus
Well, it's hard to mount an argument that we're succeeding tremendously in those arenas. But I know you you actually do hands on work with education and social impact in this realm of epidemiology. Can you speak to what you've observed that that works or what brings you hope that can work in this this field?

00:18:14:18 - 00:18:35:16
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah, well, I think again, as a storyteller, you know, you have to think about how to talk to people about these things and how to talk to people who don't talk like you and who don't understand the science. You know, people keep pushing scientists to help the public understand more. But but I think science as scientists also need to understand the public more.

00:18:35:18 - 00:19:09:20
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So I spend a lot of time trying to do that, to listen, to be a good observer. I think a good documentarian does just that. And, you know, I think we do need to focus on some of the wins in general. And I'm sure you can relate with your fight in Bristol Bay is just thinking about, you know, again, not framing things as like us and them listening, helping people navigate so much misinformation that's out there.

00:19:09:22 - 00:19:29:04
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And I don't know, also helping people to understand that, you know, individual risk or your individual story is not the same as community risk or community story. So trying to help people see, you know, outside of themselves. And I think as a filmmaker, that's one thing I've always tried to do, whether it's as a science communicator or as a filmmaker.

00:19:29:10 - 00:19:50:11
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
You know, like journalists always talk about the WS of writing The who, the what, the where, the when, the how, the why. And for me, I always try to think of like the who, of the why and the who of the how and also the the by who who is the messenger for these stories, which can be even more important than the message itself.

00:19:50:13 - 00:20:08:13
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So those are some of the things I think both as you know, where whenever I'm wearing my public health hat or as my filmmaking hat, I try to remember as as good sort of tools for helping push things along in a positive way.

00:20:08:15 - 00:20:26:21
Mark Titus
Where are you seeing the WHO now of delivering these stories? But what does that look like to you in terms of impact and when you're when you're really concentrating on how a story is delivered and who's delivering it, What what are important points to you in prioritizing that message?

00:20:27:02 - 00:20:52:23
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah, it does come back to the that maxima protect the vulnerable thinking about who is most at risk to me right now it is thinking about, you know, maybe people who can't get vaccinated for other they have other conditions, maybe they're immunocompromised or going through chemotherapy. I think about people like that. I think about pregnant moms who maybe haven't gotten the vaccine, who are just really scared.

00:20:53:01 - 00:21:29:11
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And I think about people you know, I do a lot of work in the South Bronx with an organization called Rocking the Boat and thinking about, you know, that community that has borne the brunt of disease and death from COVID and thinking about how do we continue to get vaccination rates up there, but also help to think about how do we, you know, better listen and represent communities like that so that they won't continually keep bearing the brunt of things like pandemics, of things like elections.

00:21:29:13 - 00:21:31:20
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
You know, the list goes on.

00:21:31:22 - 00:22:05:14
Mark Titus
We were going to I was going to steer us into the big 100,000 foot view of storytelling, and we're going to get there in half a second. But you got you jumped right into the messing around with boats part, which I love, love, love, love this work. So could you expound on that a little bit about this work that you do and and what you've observed over the years about rocking the boat and how that as a movement and as a story has created some impact in New York?

00:22:05:15 - 00:22:40:18
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah. So rocking the boat. I work with a lot of nonprofits especially nonprofits in the environmental space. And Rocking the Boat is my my favorite. Rocking the Boat is a nonprofit founded by Adam Green, who's just this wonderful genius of an innovator and social impact leader. It's in the South Bronx. We teach kids how to build wooden boats and then use the process of learning to build wooden boats together from scratch with their own hands as a portal to learn about environmental science.

00:22:40:18 - 00:23:04:21
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So learn about the Bronx River that most of our participants never really even knew was in their backyard. To learn how to swim, to learn to sail, to access this water world that many kids of color and kids in the South Bronx specifically, which is where rocking the boat is based, don't have access to. So it has been I mean, talk about a joy in my life, like I really love you have to come out.

00:23:04:21 - 00:23:25:14
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
You have to come out and come to rocking the boat and roll with us. And these these students are just amazing, amazing people. And, you know, the pandemic has also shown me like, who who is involved with this organization that's really going to keep fighting for an organization like that during a pandemic when it seems like there are other priorities.

00:23:25:14 - 00:23:57:16
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Right. But but perhaps, you know, all along, Rocking the boat has really been a public health organization. You're thinking about the health of this community through the portal of accessing the water and having these students learn, learn together and and lead their community forward, whether it's with the Environmental Justice issues or just simply wanting to have some fun with their families and participate in sports that they wouldn't have access to be able to grow in college.

00:23:57:18 - 00:24:01:17
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
It's just it's a really neat, neat organization.

00:24:01:19 - 00:24:21:18
Mark Titus
Well, I'm going to take that as an invitation. And by the way, yeah, I have been this has been on my bucket list for years. I wanted to come out in 2019 and we were bringing the wild out into the world. And then, of course, 2020 was 2020. And so here we are this year, like let's, let's put a pin in it for 22.

00:24:21:18 - 00:24:52:15
Mark Titus
I would absolutely love to come see this. This just seems marvelous to me. I'd love to see the looks on these kids faces when they're encountering and exploring the natural world like this. It's just I think it's an incredible example, again, of experience creating a resonance with people that would never have that kind of feeling available to them, you know, without having the experience.

00:24:52:15 - 00:25:18:17
Mark Titus
So, you know, I love the work you do, all of it. And this is one of my favorite things that you do. And let's let's just go just a little bit further into that idea that you just brought up about community and the the health of community and the resilience of community, creating better outcomes for actual physical health, actual social and mental and spiritual health for individuals within that community.

00:25:18:18 - 00:25:45:22
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah, I think, you know, what's great about a model like rocking the boat is that it's there's something about these students building things with their hands. There's something about that translation of something that feels like very cerebral and philosophical to actually, you know, measuring and cutting wood with your hands and then making something that floats that you can all get in together.

00:25:46:04 - 00:26:16:13
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
I mean, the metaphors abound, but but it is it's just it's just awesome. And and what I love about it most is that it's really the students leading leading the way, which is which is so important. So it's a pretty special organization. You'll have to, you know, next year, you can you're welcome to role on my team. I do a fundraising event every year for Rocking the Boat where we row around the island of Manhattan in these wooden rowboats takes us all day.

00:26:16:14 - 00:26:33:08
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
We stop for breakfast and lunch, but we do circumnavigate Manhattan and there's rowboats. And the students are the toxins. They're they're leading the way. They're steering us around. But, you know, it's worth it's worth all the blisters you can get for the day with with rowing.

00:26:33:09 - 00:27:05:04
Mark Titus
I'm in. I am totally in and I help with lunch. That's just fantastic. You're telling a story right now and I'm completely engaged in it. And let's let's go out in outer space here for a second. Why storytelling. You you've said that storytelling is the central hub of of a wheel of Change because it seems to stick with most people.

00:27:05:06 - 00:27:14:06
Mark Titus
What is it about storytelling, you know, from a historical perspective and then from you as an individual that you find so powerful?

00:27:14:08 - 00:27:37:03
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah, well, I think from a historical perspective, you know, storytelling is the best all the best tool we have for problem solving. You know, it's a way we always come together to solve problems. And that's a personal on a personal level, you know, science is always framed as this very unemotional thing, whereas being a creative, being a filmmaker feels a lot more emotional.

00:27:37:05 - 00:28:10:10
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
But I think, you know, the the overlap there, the Venn diagram, you know, it comes together with things like imagination and curiosity and innovation. And, you know, I think I think about, well, there's two things that I always think about as a scientist and as a filmmaker when it comes to like the power of storytelling. And one of them is thinking about the overview effect, the sort of surprise way of shifting someone's perception or understanding of something that that photo of, of, of, of the earth from space.

00:28:10:10 - 00:28:29:04
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
I think it was like 70 to 1970 to ish, maybe it was 72. And they, they took the photo of of the Earth as they were going to the moon. And you know, that idea of like or that old adage of, you know, we went to the moon, we went to discover the moon, but all we discovered was was was the earth.

00:28:29:04 - 00:29:06:15
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
I think that's the power of storytelling and unexpected storytelling. So I love that that I hold on to that idea of like the overview effect and in my own work. And the second thing is that people talk about this thinking about moral, moral elevation, this idea of like when you see your experience, somebody's going through something hard and and, and succeeding or doing something good and helping someone you, you experience that through them and feel that you can do the same.

00:29:06:17 - 00:29:29:20
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So this idea, this sort of combination of like the overview effect and moral elevation or kind of to things that I hold close when I'm working on a story, when I'm taking what project I want to do next, or when someone approaches me with a project, I very much think about those two things and, and if they align with a given topic or approach to a story.

00:29:29:22 - 00:30:00:07
Mark Titus
Well, speaking of stories, we we met and came together through your magnificent film, Memory of Fish, and it's a biopic about Dick going who is a legend out on the Olympic Peninsula, out on the river. That's an entire country away from where you are and where you grew up. How did you fall into this story and and how did you meet Dick and how did you fall in love with salmon?

00:30:00:07 - 00:30:08:08
Mark Titus
Because I know we are we are kin in this and we talk about it all the time. How did this all come to be?

00:30:08:10 - 00:30:28:17
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah, well, first, I want to thank you. I thank you before, but I want to thank you again, because, you know, when somebody from the East Coast comes to your backyard and wants to make a film about someone like Dick going, you know, you can imagine that maybe not everyone embraces you immediately and you were not like that from the very beginning.

00:30:28:17 - 00:30:57:12
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
You're like, all right, I want to hear what you're doing. I'm going to help you. You just, like, encircled me with support and love and resources and never guarded the homework, so to speak, you know? And so thank you. I think the film was a huge success because of it and that sense of community right away. But so I, I had a I have a very dear friend, Phil Johnson, who I went to graduate school with, and he was well, I was focused on water issues.

00:30:57:12 - 00:31:22:02
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
He was focused on air pollution. And so he had spent a lot of time in Port Angeles working on pulp mill pollution and thinking about the air there. And the going's Phil was like sort of renegade scientist and he still is. And the go and took him in kind of as like another son. And so they became good friends.

00:31:22:04 - 00:31:49:11
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And over the years I would hear all these stories about this this man, this like river Yoda dick going and you know, fast forward to 28, 29, still would call me every now and again telling me wild stories and talking about these dams that were coming that he wanted dam. And finally he was you know, when I had talked to Dick and he had convinced him that he it was time to tell his story.

00:31:49:12 - 00:32:10:04
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And Dick was like, well, I'm not Hollywood. They've come knocking before. I'm not who would I trust? And and Bill said, No, I know someone that you can you can trusted to do this. And so one thing led to the next and I fell in love with go in as a character but also fell in love with the river, you know, as a as an ocean person.

00:32:10:06 - 00:32:48:11
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
You know, rivers were really new to me, but it was the salmon that I held on to and and his story really helped me understand more about how incredible these fish were and how they connected fresh and saltwater. And so, yeah, I just felt very, very lucky to have had that story really fall on my lap and, you know, shooting it over the period of six, six or six years, just committing to that long term process because I really wanted to follow the story before, during and after the dams came down.

00:32:48:13 - 00:33:06:04
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
You know, it was quite, quite a journey. But yeah, I still I think about that project all the time and I'm still in touch with Marie going has his wife and his grandson Kyle. So I feel really lucky that they've kind of taken me in and they feel like family to me.

00:33:06:06 - 00:33:52:19
Mark Titus
What a gift and what a gift to us for creating the film. I mean, there's so many moments in that movie that I think of and remember and but there's one in particular. I don't know why my mind always comes to this, but you've you've took the time to film Dick going working out in his, you know, back room with like his hickory work shirt and his, you know, big kind of like logger pants and, and I thought that was such an interesting choice of, you know, spending the time because we know, like you put any kind of anything on screen, it's it's made it through a gantlet of of decisions to make it up

00:33:52:19 - 00:34:19:01
Mark Titus
there on screen and I just thought it was so remarkable, him scratching out the amount of reps that he would do for his his dumbbells, you know, homemade dumbbells, by the way. And he reminded me of the salmon themselves. Like that in particular was just such a metaphor to me about someone's persistence. And there's nobody making him do that.

00:34:19:01 - 00:34:47:20
Mark Titus
It wasn't to look cool or to, you know, like have a beach body. He's like, I got to keep going. I got things to do just like the salmon. I got things to do. I got life, life to perpetuate. And I that's what I got out of that scene. I just thought it was so brilliant. What are some of your other favorite parts of that film that that really reside in your heart?

00:34:47:22 - 00:35:08:10
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Yeah, well, I actually do love that scene to I think one of my goals, a filmmaker, is always to, you know, how do you help these really big these big stories or someone who might not never see the Elwha River or never see a live salmon other than what's on their plate? How do you bring you know, it's always about how do you bring big stories closer?

00:35:08:10 - 00:35:28:11
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Not necessarily making big stories smaller, but how do you make people feel like they're a part of something? And and that was just something, you know, he he he lifted weights, by the way. He made those weights, you know, So it's like he's just he was so authentic, Like he made his own weights. He would pump iron with a pant, with his pocket protector, his pants.

00:35:28:13 - 00:35:56:14
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
You know, it was like it's just he was so true to his own character. And I never want to make a caricature of him. But it was just like I really wanted people to know who he was, what he was made of. And you're right on like he was, you know, dick going equaled salmon to me. So whenever I could find humanizing moments of how to make people feel for the salmon, I felt like that was a good way to do it.

00:35:56:16 - 00:36:30:10
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So, yeah, and his dedication of just, you know, writing down all of his raps was just great. So that's who I do love. I do love that scene. I just mostly love like the quiet moments with him. Just, you know, didn't all make it into the film, but just watching him watch the river and the things that he would see that even the camera wouldn't pick up or the things that he would hear that my mike, I mean, he just it was like he you know, I would joke with my friend Phil Johnson that his glasses would see through time, like he would see things before, you know, I would see them.

00:36:30:10 - 00:36:39:07
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
And it's just because he knew every nook and cranny of of that place he was from, that he was truly a part of that place.

00:36:39:09 - 00:37:11:10
Mark Titus
You know, I was going to say that the other the other piece that I loved just as a shot choice, were the the moments when he was spey casting and just how absolutely effortless and graceful and magical he made it look. And that, of course, from hard work, like practicing over and over again, like the softness of an old leather glove or a river stone that's been, you know, you know, softened over over millennia.

00:37:11:10 - 00:37:41:02
Mark Titus
And and it was just such a a feeling of reverence that he had for each, you know, stroke that he'd make of the spray rod out into the water. And like you said, the quiet moments in that film were just spectacular. And I got to watch it again and we're going to link to it here in our show notes.

00:37:41:02 - 00:37:48:13
Mark Titus
But how do folks get access to watch Memory of Fish if they want to check it out?

00:37:48:15 - 00:38:23:03
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Well, you can go to the website, The Memory of Fish Tor.com. It's also available on most streaming platforms like iTunes or Amazon. I still have a few DVDs left, so if anyone wants a DVD, they can contact me. I'm happy to send someone. Yeah, it's really been you know, that film was finished four years ago now, but I'm really I'm really proud that it's kind of lasted just like the timeless story that I had always imagined.

00:38:23:05 - 00:38:36:13
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So, yeah, I, I do hope you'll watch it again. I always. I watch it, too. And I see I see things differently every time I watch it. So there's always something to learn. Learn from him.

00:38:36:14 - 00:39:13:15
Mark Titus
Well, and of course, the most spectacular outcome is that the Elwha River is free and wild again. And there's all five species of Pacific salmon and wild steelhead and trout that are up and spawning in its system. And that was Dick's life work as as it was, you know, other folks like like Russ Bush in the breach and a lot of other people, especially the members of our tribe, you know, whose lifeblood this river system and its salmon are.

00:39:13:17 - 00:39:38:13
Mark Titus
So we're going to start winding her down here for for this part anyway, because I'm hoping we can we can revisit and continue checking in as as life turns and progresses here. But we do this fun little thing at the end of each show where you're you're forced to make some choices. Okay? And let's let's just pretend here for a moment that you're here.

00:39:38:13 - 00:39:56:22
Mark Titus
And this on the East Coast these days is not too far fetched. That your house was in the path of a flood. And knock on wood, as I say this, but if you could, besides your loved ones, your pets here, your two little dogs, you can only take one physical thing out of the house. What would it be?

00:39:57:00 - 00:40:20:00
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
It would be. I recently got a few things that my great grandmother had come over from Greece with, and she came to this country. There are these it's a silk sort of stitched silk piece of artwork. And also her wedding certificate from Ellis Island.

00:40:20:02 - 00:40:41:16
Mark Titus
wow. That's treasure. How about a little metaphysical for you? What about two of the things that most make Jin Jin? If you could only take two of those things out in, you know, the oncoming flood, what would those two things be?

00:40:41:17 - 00:40:56:20
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
gosh. The two of the things that make me me. This is a hard one. I don't know. Me Think you mean like, physical, physical things that are symbolic of me?

00:40:56:22 - 00:41:03:05
Mark Titus
I think about things like, Well, I mean, just from an outside observer. Yeah. Your tenacity.

00:41:03:07 - 00:41:03:18
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
yeah.

00:41:03:19 - 00:41:07:12
Mark Titus
You're curious. Like, what are those? Those type of things. Two of them.

00:41:07:14 - 00:41:37:08
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Well, I wouldn't. I my sense of humor is something that I that I hold on to on a daily basis. And I love to laugh. So that that would be one laughter And then just, you know, kind of my my vigilance for health, not like in a purist way, but really, you know, that health. I just feel like there's you know, we don't have much of we don't have our health.

00:41:37:10 - 00:41:41:16
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
So I think laughter and health would be my two things.

00:41:41:17 - 00:41:46:06
Mark Titus
Anything that you would leave to get washed away in this flood.

00:41:46:08 - 00:42:05:02
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
To get washed away in the flood purified. I mean, yeah, I would I mean, in some ways I don't need to be watching TV that much. The news is horrifying. So maybe take the TV's.

00:42:05:04 - 00:42:06:19
Mark Titus
And.

00:42:06:21 - 00:42:20:15
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Take the TV's. And I know a second and a second thing. Don't know. Gosh, do me you know. I don't know. I'm terrible. These kinds of.

00:42:20:15 - 00:42:50:15
Mark Titus
Questions. The TVs are more than enough to be swept away in a in a torrential flood. Well, this this is scratching the surface here today. But I am so grateful for your your time and availability and mostly your friendship. It has been consistent over the years through ups and downs. And when you're connected in something bigger than yourself, like salmon, you know, it it definitely fills in those gaps when you're feeling kind of alone.

00:42:50:15 - 00:43:00:10
Mark Titus
So I'm so grateful for you and Jen. If folks want to follow along with the work you're doing or reach out and contact you, where's the best place to send them?

00:43:00:12 - 00:43:19:11
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Well, probably my my film company is website real blue dot net. So that would probably be the best way to reach me. And yeah, love, love hearing from people and fan of talking to strangers. So for better or for worse.

00:43:19:12 - 00:43:38:18
Mark Titus
Well let's not let's not make it to too much longer before we we talk again and we are definitely on for a row around Manhattan next year. And in the meantime take good care We'll navigate these waters together. And so long for now. We'll see you down the trail.

00:43:38:20 - 00:43:41:03
Dr. Jennifer Galvin
Okay. Thank you so much. Stay healthy.

00:43:41:05 - 00:43:50:14
Music
How do you save what you love?
How do you save what you love?

00:43:53:00 - 00:44:23:21
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening to Save What You Love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts. You can check out photos and links from this episode at evaswild.com. While there, you can join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter, you'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way.

00:44:23:23 - 00:45:02:13
Mark Titus
That's at evaswild.com. That's the word Save spelled backwards Wild dot com. This episode was produced by Tyler White and edited by Patrick Troll. Original music was created by Whiskey Class. This podcast is a collaboration between Ava's Wild Stories and Salmon Nation and was recorded on the homelands of the Duwamish. People. We'd like to recognize these lands and waters and their significance for the people who lived and continued to live in this region whose practices and spiritualities were and are tied to the land in the water, and whose lives continue to enrich and develop in relationship to the land waters and other inhabitants today.