Save What You Love with Mark Titus

00:00:00:07 - 00:00:21:23
Mark Titus
Welcome to the Save What You Love podcast. I'm your host, Mark Titus. Today I get to sit down with Tim Troll, the executive director of the Bristol Bay Heritage Land Trust. Tim has a mighty powerful initiative going on right now to create a conservation easement in Bristol Bay that would, in fact block the development of the proposed Pebble Mine.

00:00:22:00 - 00:00:43:00
Mark Titus
It's super important work and he's going to talk about that. He's also going to talk about a very cool odyssey he's about to undertake sailing a double ender sailboat that was used in our Bristol Bay fishing operation. Many years ago, they used to only use double or sailboats to haul fish up out of the deep in Bristol Bay.

00:00:43:02 - 00:01:07:16
Mark Titus
If you're wondering if Tim's name sounds familiar, you are not off. Tim is the brother of Ray, who's on this show and a frequent collaborator and the uncle of Patrick Troll, who's editing this very episode. If you like what you're hearing, please consider giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts. It really helps the visibility of the show. And we're going to be coming back to you soon with regular programing.

00:01:07:18 - 00:01:14:20
Mark Titus
Enjoy this PSA and we'll see you soon.

00:01:14:21 - 00:01:47:23
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:01:48:01 - 00:01:51:19
Mark Titus
Tim Troll, Welcome. Where are you coming to us from today?

00:01:51:21 - 00:01:54:02
Tim Troll
I'm coming to you from Kauai over there.

00:01:54:04 - 00:01:58:22
Mark Titus
What? What? Wait a minute. You're not in your usual haunts. What's going on here?

00:01:59:00 - 00:02:08:19
Tim Troll
Well, I'm taking a break from my usual host. Has had an opportunity the last minute to come over to Hawaii with some friends from Alaska. So here I am.

00:02:08:21 - 00:02:30:14
Mark Titus
Good for you, Boy. Anybody deserves it. You do? And we're going to talk about all kinds of aspects of the work you do, but I'm going to toss it right over to you from the start and just let you tell us your story. How did you find your way to Bristol Bay and how did you come into the work that you do?

00:02:30:16 - 00:02:58:03
Tim Troll
Well, coming into Bristol Bay, I guess maybe start I mean, I came to Alaska in 1978 as a as a lawyer for Alaska Legal Services, a VISTA volunteer, and asked to actually be assigned to Dillingham because a friend had told me that if you really want to be in a cool place with lots of things to do in the outdoors, you know, like the wilderness and Dillingham is the place you want to be.

00:02:58:05 - 00:03:09:06
Tim Troll
Because the state had just just set up the would take two state park, which is the largest state park in the nation and that's real close to going in.

00:03:09:08 - 00:03:11:11
Mark Titus
And gorgeous and.

00:03:11:12 - 00:03:49:06
Tim Troll
This you can't it's something else. But the offices in Dillingham were already full and Bethel had a need for constant work. And so they sent me to Bethel, which turned out to be just a really wonderful place. I enjoyed that and wound up living in the Delta Legal Services for a couple of years, then went over to the Yukon to be the city manager of St Mary's, where I really got really got to know what salmon were like for people in that region.

00:03:49:07 - 00:04:12:00
Tim Troll
Then went back to grad school for a year and got married, decided I should try practicing law, did that for half a dozen years in Anchorage, Didn't really didn't really work for me as well as I thought it would be. Took a job as a city administrator out in Sandpoint, another community that does a lot of depending depends a lot on commercial salmon.

00:04:12:02 - 00:04:53:05
Tim Troll
And then got a chance to go to Dillingham was called about coming out to an interview for to be the CEO of the village corporation and that was in 1994 four or five. And so I went out there to be the CEO of Shogun Limited, which is the Village Corporation for Better Access Alaskan Settlement Act for the Native residents, and doing it in that area and went out there, raised my family there, really got to like Dillingham.

00:04:53:07 - 00:05:18:13
Tim Troll
My wife then got a teaching job in Anchorage, certainly got Anchorage in, but I stayed connected. So that's that. And while I got well, we were out in Dillingham as a CEO. The board of directors worked with me to form the Bristol Bay Heritage Land Trust. We did that in 2000, and that's where I've been ever since, for most part.

00:05:18:15 - 00:05:37:05
Mark Titus
So what what exactly? For our listeners who are unfamiliar with the Bristol Bay Heritage Land Trust and Land Trust in general, what is this work that you do? What does it look like on the big picture and what does it look like on a on a day to day basis?

00:05:37:07 - 00:06:14:12
Tim Troll
Well, maybe thing to start is is with the corporation, the village corporation. I don't want to go into the details of anchor, but every native village in existence in December of 1971 became entitled to land sections of land and in area that amounted to about 300,000 acres. And a lot of our land, the Shogun limited land, was along the New York River and other other places, but also as a result of anchor.

00:06:14:13 - 00:06:42:09
Tim Troll
So are a lot of individual native claims that were also taken care of because prior to anchor there was the Alaska Native Allotment Act, and that's where individuals could apply for and receive up to 160 acres of an individual allotment. There were thousands of these. In fact, when I came on with Legal Services in Bethel, that was my one of my primary responsibilities.

00:06:42:09 - 00:07:20:00
Tim Troll
I had a stack of maybe 500 cases are needed to be evidence gathered. It was it was I would have taken a long time, hundreds of years to resolve all of these because they were individual little claims each of which had to be adjudicated. So when Anelka, the Alaska native National Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act came along, there was a provision that just automatically approved all of the native allotments where there were applications pending at the time, subject to some certain exceptions.

00:07:20:01 - 00:07:48:05
Tim Troll
But for the most part, what that resulted in for my village corporation standpoint is all of a sudden your lands were pock marked with native in holdings, private end holdings, which looking forward particularly in certain areas the corporation can see that was going to make it difficult to manage its lands. And we were beginning to see that some of these native allotments were being sold to non-natives.

00:07:48:07 - 00:08:12:06
Tim Troll
And that was a big concern for us on the Nushagak River and where we as the corporation had set up a very good land management program to keep to allow sportfishing but not to over use it, because we still had a major subsistence interest among all our shareholders. So how do we deal with that problem and how do we solve it?

00:08:12:08 - 00:08:44:19
Tim Troll
Well, we could buy the native allotments as a corporation, but we wouldn't be buying them to do anything with them. And corporations don't buy things to just not do anything with them. So it becomes you. You can't justify spending shareholder money for an asset that's not going to perform for you. So that was the one problem. The other was, well, how do you decide which which parcel is worth purchasing or should be purchased?

00:08:44:21 - 00:09:08:11
Tim Troll
And the board was very reluctant to do that simply because they didn't want to be favoring one shareholder over another shareholder. So and we did have shareholders who typically would offer, you know, the corporation the option to purchase their native allotments. First. We would do that, but only when we could purchase it for a reason to develop like developing a subdivision and doing it there.

00:09:08:11 - 00:09:38:19
Tim Troll
It had commercial value to us, but a native allotment that was just not going to be developed would have no commercial value for us. And so it wasn't wasn't long. You know, we're trying to deal with that issue. And then one day a fellow by name of Brad Meiklejohn with the Conservation Fund passed through my office and we had a visit and he said they were in the process of purchasing a native allotment up in the Wood District State Park, one that was on one of them.

00:09:38:21 - 00:10:04:20
Tim Troll
Now the Eagle River, if you've been up there, you'll know that that's a huge sport. Fishing. Yeah. And the native allotment was right there and I knew the the shareholder actually, his name was Harvey Sanderson. Harvey Sanderson, Senior. And Harvey wanted to sell it to the Native Corporation as well. But, you know, that was just not something we could do.

00:10:04:22 - 00:10:39:23
Tim Troll
But the Conservation Fund agreed to come in and purchase it and ultimately turned it over to the state. But in our conversations with Brad at the conservation time, because I said to him, there are lots of native allotments out here, could you help us purchase the ones that are of critical importance for basically maintaining our subsistence culture? And he said, well, probably not, because the conservation fund has different priorities nationwide, but why don't you guys, former Land trust and I didn't know what a land trust was.

00:10:40:00 - 00:11:10:01
Tim Troll
So actually, through further discussions with the Conservation Fund and then later with the Nature Conservancy, that was also becoming interested in the region. And this is back in 1998 nine, the this period of time, they're actually working with both the Conservation Fund and the Nature Conservancy, our board, the board of directors of charging at the time. So they would put up some money.

00:11:10:03 - 00:11:33:19
Tim Troll
If those organizations would put up some money, would send some people back to a big conference of land trust. That happens every year, which we did send two people back. They came back and said, no, this is a pretty interesting idea. Why don't we pursue it? And we did. So Land Trust is basically a nonprofit organization that's dedicated.

00:11:33:20 - 00:12:32:15
Tim Troll
There's probably 1000. There's probably more than 1500 in the United States of all different varying sizes. But from our standpoint, it would create a nonprofit organization that could independently evaluate primarily these native allotments at the time and determine which ones were the important ones for basically habitat subsistence protecting salmon. And it wouldn't necessarily be purchasing the allotments. We would be willing to purchase a conservation easement and a conservation easement as a statutorily created land restriction that would allow you to purchase a development rights over a piece of property, but allow the native owner to retain, you know, using it for subsistence, having the typical fish rack drying rack cabin, that kind of thing.

00:12:32:17 - 00:13:07:23
Tim Troll
You know, we felt that was from a conservation standpoint that was a compatible use of the property as opposed to, say, somebody coming in and building a huge sportfishing lodge and all of a sudden bringing thousands of people in. And then it got pretty urgent for us when that almost happened on the Nushagak actually did happen in many ways on a parcel on the New York River got sold and we began to see a subdivision proposal come out for an 80 acre parcel property subdivided into the 81 acre parcels of property.

00:13:08:01 - 00:13:31:04
Tim Troll
And then all of a sudden people were realizing we could see the biggest village pop up on the New York River every summer. And huge pressure on the population. So that did become a concern. That property did get subdivided and but I don't know that it's all been been solved, but that was the biggest concern and why we created a land trust.

00:13:31:06 - 00:14:03:20
Tim Troll
And initially we decided we had a meeting called a meeting, several meetings actually, but the primary one was getting, particularly the leaders of the Dillingham area and the villages on the Nushagak together to talk about the idea and whether we should pursue it. And I remember the meeting in which we everybody decided to do it, as we also talked about, is it should it be just a native land trust and decided?

00:14:03:20 - 00:14:34:13
Tim Troll
Probably not, because really the commercial lodges interests out in the region, which were primarily non-native, really had access to people with the kind of money that you're ultimately going to need to do many of these acquisitions. And they had an interest, too, obviously, in keeping the country as natural as possible. And then, of course, there's the whole commercial fishing industry that although they may not realize it, they are dependent upon the habitat that produces those salmon.

00:14:34:15 - 00:15:05:06
Tim Troll
That's the factory that produces the product. So we decided it would not just be a native land trust, that it should be all encompassing and but then what to name it, I thought would just be the new Chicago, because the New York River was our primary area of concern. But then my good buddy Luca, advocate from Aqua, says, Now if you got the notion, you got to have them all China.

00:15:05:08 - 00:15:24:14
Tim Troll
So, okay, the name's going to be that new sugar mulch out in the land. Trust. And then Bud Hodson, who's now the president of our Land Trust, he has a lodge up in the teachers, says, well, you know, what the world knows about is the would take two state park so we have to have the would chicken there.

00:15:24:16 - 00:15:27:22
Tim Troll
So we had the new jack mulch and that would take to the state park.

00:15:28:00 - 00:15:30:23
Mark Titus
But now it's becoming a mouthful.

00:15:31:01 - 00:16:11:17
Tim Troll
So yes, we actually became known as the mouthful Land Trust. But it was very it you know, there's also a discussion whether it should be Bristol Bay, why and the time and the discussion was real. Probably not at this at that time, because those who formed the land trusts like Lukin was an original and Corporator and Herman Nelson from Lagoon and Tommy Tilden from children and Dillingham and others, they knew the new sugar country and didn't feel like they knew enough about the other parts of Bristol Bay to be able to serve.

00:16:11:19 - 00:16:31:07
Tim Troll
That changed later as we actually started getting requests for help and doing projects over in the area. So in 2013, the name got expanded to the Bristol Bay Heritage Land Trust and we got rid of the name that so many people had trouble pronouncing.

00:16:31:09 - 00:17:22:20
Mark Titus
So so that's what we did. Well, meanwhile, as this is developing this story and this entity, there is a a battle in the background that has been started, gosh, in the late eighties and now by the mid-nineties, it's really ramping up. Can you tell us about how the work that you did in creating the Bristol Bay Heritage Land Trust, then overlaid onto that battle for Bristol Bay against the proposed Pebble Mine and its massive open pit sulfide, copper and gold and molybdenum mine in the headwaters of Bristol Bay.

00:17:22:22 - 00:17:56:09
Tim Troll
Well, there wasn't I mean, yes, I think people just kind of knew that there was something up in that area, but it really wasn't a battle in terms of what you see now, really until the 2000s, maybe the you know, the early 2000s and how we got involved in it was actually through a relationship that the Land Trust had with the Nature Conservancy.

00:17:56:11 - 00:18:36:18
Tim Troll
I was hired on to be the Southwest Alaska program director for the Nature Conservancy in 2004, I think it was. But it was sort of a cooperative relationship between the Nature Conservancy and the Land Trust. We both participated basically in my salary, but I was I was stationed in in Anchorage, and the purpose was to develop a traditional use area conservation plan for the communities of the Michigan River in cooperation with the Nature Conservancy and Bristol Bay Native Association.

00:18:36:20 - 00:19:21:03
Tim Troll
So and we had the Nature Conservancy had a grant from the foundation and a grant and from some tribal money through Bristol Bay Native Association. So this was really before Pebble was in everybody's consciousness. It was out there. But our our project was to go through each of the villages and we set up a little commission and to do interviews, basically traditional ecological knowledge type interviews in each of the village, collect place names, kind of figure out the areas that the communities felt important for certain species that they had chosen for us to find more information about.

00:19:21:05 - 00:20:04:23
Tim Troll
Obviously sockeye king Coho in terms of importance for salmon plus whitefish and other things that were sort of had importance in the subsistence lifestyle as well as moose and caribou and things. So basically trying to create these areas where that overlay or in maps, you know, these are the areas where the is we should protect. And then from our standpoint as a land trust or even the Nature Conservancy was okay, well, that gave us a way to prioritize, say, native allotments from their importance to their habitat and gave us a way to sort of look at the countryside and say, okay, well, here's the private lands, here's the state lands.

00:20:04:23 - 00:20:37:21
Tim Troll
What private lands do we need? We feel are important. So the whole thing was then to move towards creating what we ultimately call the new Chugiak River Watershed Traditional Use Area Conservation Plan. That took us several years to pull that together. And the interesting thing is we really did find how important place names, traditional place names were in terms of identifying areas, but it was during that process that all of a sudden pebble became really came out in the spotlight.

00:20:37:21 - 00:21:00:20
Tim Troll
And I think that was when they discovered the East deposit of the West deposit. I can't remember which that really sort of increased the value of it. So that shifted our thinking because we were still sort of towards the end of developing the watershed plan. But we said, Well, this has to be more than just looking at the land.

00:21:00:22 - 00:21:33:21
Tim Troll
What are the other things that we should be doing, particularly in light of the fact that there might be this development out here? And so that also said, well, we may be a land trust or we may be villages. We have to think about the water, and the water doesn't belong to anybody. In theory. So working, of course, with the Nature Conservancy, we sort of develop a three pronged approach to Pebble.

00:21:33:22 - 00:21:52:12
Tim Troll
At that time, the board of directors wanted to actually gather is the Nature Conservancy and the Land Trust as much information as possible to see if they should ever get to a point of taking a position, yay or nay or neutral on this pebble project. So the.

00:21:52:12 - 00:21:53:22
Mark Titus
Approach we.

00:21:54:00 - 00:22:50:19
Tim Troll
Took was, Well, we should build a program around sort of three ideas. One was we should be able to we should work towards getting as much protection for the habitat and the water as existed under current law. What's available currently that we can take advantage of to make sure that if Pebble comes along, that we have a seat at the table and then we felt that we needed to have our own group of scientists, we had to be able to employ people to help sort of in an independent manner to gather information, not so much against the mine, but to make sure that the information that we are getting, we can evaluate from the standpoint

00:22:50:19 - 00:23:18:07
Tim Troll
of did they get enough information, did they get it right and they get it wrong. And we wanted that to come from people who were not necessarily consultants to the mine itself. Okay. Yeah. So not that we would question their science, but check it in a sense. And then the third, that meant getting our own people up on the site to be familiar with the area where it was.

00:23:18:08 - 00:23:53:16
Tim Troll
And, and so that's kind of what we did. And again, that was primarily supported from a variety of funding sources, but mostly from the Nature Conservancy at the time. And for us that meant we need to do anonymous stream surveys, you know, under Alaska law. And even if there there's a salmon that's a salmon stream, basically, and it's identified and proved to be a salmon stream, then it gets a higher level of permitting protection.

00:23:53:18 - 00:24:16:16
Tim Troll
So we did notice there was not and that meant really going out and getting the little small streams, a lot of headwater streams. And so we focused on the pebble deposit area and in some cases we actually tried to work with Pebble on this to determine were there salmon, were how far did the salmon go up that area and are there what are the salmon streams?

00:24:16:18 - 00:24:48:20
Tim Troll
So we actually did a first helicopter survey back in 2008 or something led by Caroline. Woody, Right. Was well known in this county. And there were actually there were actually salmon on the deposit. And for those of you who know salmon, coho salmon are really pioneers. They're the ones who tend to go as far upstream. And this is all stuff I didn't know until I started working with this group of people.

00:24:48:22 - 00:25:28:23
Tim Troll
But as a result of a quick survey that we had over a three days, we found that there were salmon actually on the deposit itself beyond and past frying pan, which is kind of a link that everybody's aware of in that area. So that that's sparked our interest. And we decided to do more of an Adam Stream survey all around the deposit and get those added to the catalog so that if the mine should go through, there would be at least a higher level of scrutiny with respect to those streams and because you can't disturb a stream without a permit habitat permit from Abbey F and G, So that was important to establish the extent

00:25:28:23 - 00:26:04:21
Tim Troll
of salmon in the deposit area. The other big component, a very expensive one, was also under Alaska law, you can get in-stream flow reservations for fish and that doesn't in-stream flow reservations can be granted to individual organizations, individuals, organizations or the state. So we did identify major streams that could be affected by a mine. Those would be like the cork to the Caspian.

00:26:04:21 - 00:26:34:05
Tim Troll
I agree. Possibly the study r upper to lyric, lower to lyric. Those are all air water bodies, streams that sort of come out of the Pebble area. So we wanted to get move through the process to do in stream flow reservations to try to collect the hydrologic data necessary to ultimately apply for a reservation in those systems for fish.

00:26:34:07 - 00:27:07:13
Tim Troll
So under Alaska's water appropriation law, which is very unique because it allows for these reservations in individual organizations, you don't have to be a state government can do this, but it is expensive and requires a collection of five years of flow information, so helicopters and all this kind of stuff. But ultimately, working with Bristol Bay native Association, Trout Unlimited Wells was involved, Bristol Bay Trout Unlimited.

00:27:07:15 - 00:27:34:08
Tim Troll
So all the Nature Conservancy, lots of them. We put the money together to do to do all that, the collection that was necessary. And this means going out to each beach river system several times a year, three or four times a year, putting in USGS gauges and then collecting the data, and then five years later filing an application for a reservation to the Department of Natural Resources.

00:27:34:10 - 00:28:02:22
Tim Troll
And that was done. But most of those applications are still pending there. They've never been approved or disapproved, but nevertheless, and what that does, it then does you as the sort of holder of that reservation on behalf of the public, our entitled to basically have standing in a future decision as to whether water can be removed from that system without damaging fish.

00:28:02:23 - 00:28:16:14
Tim Troll
So that was that. And then the third component was just getting scientists up on the site and a lot of things happened. So it was basically a science based program.

00:28:16:16 - 00:28:56:19
Mark Titus
So we're talking about the areas in the drainages that are just in and adjacent to the actual mine site. Right. Can you talk to me now about kind of flash forward a little bit here to the Pedro Bay Rivers project And what what is it what's going on with it? And why are the lands and watersheds associated with that project critical in this issue to obviously conservation, but also in specifically in the fight to keep the proposed Pebble Mine from creating constructing there their operation?

00:28:56:21 - 00:29:21:10
Tim Troll
Well, we, as you know, at least backing up a little bit, we as a land trust, our real obligation is to try to protect habitat where regardless of where I mean, obviously Pebble is a threat, but there are lots of lots of needles that Pebble has to thread in order to get there permits to actually do that. But in the meantime, we were also just very engaged in protecting habitat that was that needed protection.

00:29:21:12 - 00:29:45:15
Tim Troll
And ultimately when we expanded to be the Bristol Bay Heritage Land Trust, that leads you to Lake Elliot, because if you look at a map, you look at a map of southwest Alaska, most people would look at that and say, Wow, look at that. You've got Lake Clark National Park, you've got Katmai National Park Reserve, you've got Togiak National Wildlife Refuge, you've got the world, you know, the world's largest state park in the nation.

00:29:45:17 - 00:30:22:05
Tim Troll
That's a protected area. We look at the map and say, well, the big hole is the Nushagak watershed, and we check watershed. And then you look at the numbers where the salmon come from, primarily over history of the Nushagak watershed, particularly important for King Salmon, for Chinook and Lake Guillaume, which is the beating heart of Bristol Bay when it comes to sockeye, because sockeye are spawning fish, they they were totally unprotected.

00:30:22:07 - 00:30:53:07
Tim Troll
So that focused our interests on just what are good land protection opportunities. There. And then you overlay, all right, what's the infrastructure that would be needed in order to develop the Pebble Mine? Obviously, they need to get from the mine site to to Cook Inlet with a road or pipeline of some sort. And between that site and Cook Inlet, there are several Alaska native village corporations that own land.

00:30:53:07 - 00:31:29:22
Tim Troll
So obviously Pebble would need to get leases, use permits from them to do that. So not that that was necessarily a focus. The first opportunity that we saw for doing some meaningful land conservation in Lake Oyama was a series of islands in the northeast corner of Caledonia that are critical for salmon, but also critical for Lake Aly and this unique population of freshwater seals, only one of five populations in the world.

00:31:30:00 - 00:31:55:18
Tim Troll
So we we've thought that that would be an excellent opportunity for a conservation easement of sorts. And Pedro Bay was the primary owner there. And over a period of time we secured a conservation easement from them, which was very nice in the sense that there were no native allotments in those islands. So we don't have any holdings to worry about to protect the islands for seals.

00:31:55:20 - 00:32:20:13
Tim Troll
So we did do a conservation easement with them, covered 12,700 acres, and then also actually did one with the Leander native Limited because they have the other half of the islands that are important for the SEALs and talk with them. And they were also gracious enough to grant us a conservation I mean, sell us a conservation easement. The same thing over another 1300 acres of land.

00:32:20:13 - 00:32:59:06
Tim Troll
So basically we were able to protect that whole string of islands and actually create create the first protected area, significant protected area on Lake Elgin. So that was fairly successful. Then not too long after that, Peter Bay Corporation asked us if it would be possible to help them in there. I don't know if it's a struggle, but they they were obviously not happy with the prospect of maybe a road coming through their native corporation lands, all access pebble.

00:32:59:08 - 00:33:01:06
Mark Titus
And it would be a critical road as well.

00:33:01:09 - 00:33:37:11
Tim Troll
Yes. It's what's called the northern part arch, the one that would not involve having to actually cross like on with some sort of ferry unless you went the long way around the southern part, which would also create lots of difficulties. So we looked at that. But we also realized after looking even further into it that this particular corner of Lake Iron is absolutely critical for the Bristol Bay commercial fishery and FMG, Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

00:33:37:13 - 00:34:10:17
Tim Troll
I know there's Bristol Bay Science and Research Institute. You know, I mean we've they've really helped pathogen attacks of the salmon that go into Lake Alabama and particularly the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. We were able to see that this northeastern corner of Lake Omnia, at least over the last decade, has been the biggest producer for salmon coming out of and so we sat down with the board of directors of Peter Bay Corporation.

00:34:10:19 - 00:34:46:12
Tim Troll
They told us the areas they wanted to protect wasn't necessarily focused entirely on the road because there are certain but you could look at it and you can say there are three critical areas. Connection Creek is an area of the mechanism, the Pyle River and in particular the Iliana River. And so we spent probably a year kind of defining the areas that they felt were important, that we felt were important, and came up with some acreage and a number.

00:34:46:14 - 00:35:23:18
Tim Troll
And that's what we've done. So we have negotiated three conservation easements with Pedro Bay Corporation, the village for the village that combined would be 44,000 acres. It would protect the spawning area of those three main streams and incidentally, block the road to Pebble. It would interfere with the road to Pebble, let's put it that way. So we are in the process now of raising the money to do that.

00:35:23:20 - 00:35:59:22
Tim Troll
So that's sort of the step is identifying the areas that you want to protect. Then we have to get them appraised. So basically paying an appraiser to go out and look at all these properties, come up with a value. We are typically restricted by virtue of our sources of funding to the appraised value, but the value was significant enough that Peter Bay was satisfied with that and that value came to $18.7 million.

00:36:00:00 - 00:36:19:08
Tim Troll
But we as not as a land trust, part of our obligation as we have to be around forever. And when you're taking on a conservation easement, you are saying we are going to make sure that the development rights are not abused during well until the next glacier comes through.

00:36:19:08 - 00:36:23:13
Mark Titus
Basically So we.

00:36:23:13 - 00:37:00:10
Tim Troll
Have to raise money for what we call a stewardship fund. We typically set up an endowment that over a period of time there's a source of money that we can tap into to monitor the property, making sure that nothing is happening in violation of the easement, and then should it ever need to, to defend it. So if somebody goes out of the property and starts, particularly the owner of the property, which is still the native corporation, they own this or service, they still we have to be able to, if necessary, be able to pay the court fees to go into the easement.

00:37:00:10 - 00:37:21:08
Tim Troll
So that's where the balance is primarily the stewardship fund. So we're trying to raise $20 million, 18.7 of which would go directly to the corporation, some of it which would then go to the land trust to assure the protection for. So that's kind of what the bottom is on that.

00:37:21:10 - 00:37:51:01
Mark Titus
That's well, that's a bunch, but it's also yeah, you know, it's doable and and it's a huge I mean, just to recap, it's a huge, huge move in protection for this region and a very critical and strategic move in the protection of absolutely critical spawning habitat for the two main arteries of Bristol Bay, the Queen Jack and the Nushagak.

00:37:51:03 - 00:38:22:10
Mark Titus
It's keeping the serenity of the indigenous land intact and allowable to folks to continue to use it for their subsistence ways of life. Meanwhile, it's also literally blocking or making it very difficult for the proposed Pebble Mine or any other entity that wants to come in and frankly take that or to a port, a convenient port, to then ship it out, all those things for a measly 20 million bucks.

00:38:22:12 - 00:38:26:09
Mark Titus
That sounds like a pretty good deal.

00:38:26:11 - 00:38:36:02
Tim Troll
Well, you know, having been having been around the Pebble issue for a long time now.

00:38:36:04 - 00:38:38:06
Mark Titus
It's just.

00:38:38:07 - 00:39:07:07
Tim Troll
And there's been a lot of frustration, as you probably know. You know, there was once it looked like the EPA was was going to shut it down and then that didn't happen. And that's still a viable alternative. It's something that I think the region really wants and needs. But, you know, part of the thinking here was, is there something we can do that doesn't require a federal or state agency to take some action or not take some action?

00:39:07:08 - 00:39:07:19
Mark Titus
Yes.

00:39:07:20 - 00:39:38:13
Tim Troll
And even even with the in-stream flow reservations that we were doing, and even if you did, they got every stream as possible entity that was Waters catalog. You're still depending upon the state to enforce those things. You're still depending upon the state or the feds to enforce the 404 See, this was at least an option that said, we know we can do this without having the state or the feds say yes or no.

00:39:38:15 - 00:40:03:12
Mark Titus
Well, yeah, because God forbid that the the winds of danger change and the temperature changes in that regard. We've never seen that before with a federal or state political climate. I think it's brilliant. And before we move on to another really exciting thing that you're doing right now, we'll all kind of have the catch all with how folks can follow you and help in the end.

00:40:03:12 - 00:40:12:01
Mark Titus
But for right now to to this point in the conversation, how can folks get involved with the Pedro Bay Rivers project if they want to contribute to it?

00:40:12:03 - 00:40:45:23
Tim Troll
Well, the best way would be through working with our partner, the Conservation Fund. Now, they are a national conservation organization and have probably been the most effective partner we have had in in Bristol Bay in terms of land acquisitions and conservation easement acquisitions. And they do have this on their website and you can donate through that or you can even donate through the Land Trust the Land Trust website and designate that you want your donation to go to the Pedro Big Rivers project.

00:40:46:01 - 00:41:26:14
Tim Troll
That's probably the easiest way. And then that and the Conservation Fund is leading the effort on the national level to raise funds for this. And we have we have had some significant donations from various organizations. And so we're still very hopeful we can get there by basically we have a conservation fund is under contract with Peter Bay Corporation to raise the money by the end of December this year, at which time, if we haven't raised the money, then Peter Bay is not obligated to move forward with the deal.

00:41:26:16 - 00:41:30:00
Tim Troll
So we are definitely trying to break that down.

00:41:30:00 - 00:41:54:13
Mark Titus
The clock is ticking. Well, and just for all the out there who don't have a Save what you Love T-shirt by art design by Tim's fishy brother Ray be it known that $5 from each one of those T-shirts goes directly toward this effort So get yours. They're still in stock and we'll keep them in stock to keep promoting this effort.

00:41:54:15 - 00:41:58:20
Mark Titus
But moving on for the moment, I know we could talk forever. I'll send you a link.

00:41:58:23 - 00:42:04:12
Tim Troll
I'll send you a link that you can put on your your page to have people actually wanted to donate.

00:42:04:14 - 00:42:28:16
Mark Titus
Fantastic. And we'll put it in the show notes and we'll put it in our Avis Wild's Instagram and see what you love Instagram feeds as well as Thanks. You bet. And okay, So moving on to another topic for now. We'll talk about that for the rest of the show and more. But you have a serious adventure coming up this summer.

00:42:28:16 - 00:42:38:23
Mark Titus
Can you tell us about it? How did you get involved in it? What is it involved? How long is it going on? Just give us the whole spiel. It sounds amazing.

00:42:39:01 - 00:43:05:01
Tim Troll
Well, the spiel is if you if you really get into the history of commercial fishing in Bristol Bay, which is a fascinating history, and it plays into everything that we're even looking at in this whole fight that you've been engaged in. Those basically the bottom line is we want to protect that commercial fishery because it's been around a long time and there's no reason it can't be around for a longer time.

00:43:05:02 - 00:43:10:13
Tim Troll
If we manage it well, 137 years this year, that fishery has been going.

00:43:10:15 - 00:43:13:13
Mark Titus
At sea longer than until.

00:43:13:15 - 00:43:17:20
Tim Troll
1884. First cannery.

00:43:17:22 - 00:43:37:05
Tim Troll
But then you can't look at that history and say, When I went out there and asked around, I can see these old wooden boats or back in the bushes and things like that. And you'd ask, why all these years for all this is what they used to have to fish with these sailboats. Sailboats. I mean, they were fishing out there in Bristol Bay, in sailboats.

00:43:37:07 - 00:44:09:11
Tim Troll
Yeah, they did that from 1884 to 1951, 1951. You can touch 1951. I was born in 1951. And wait a minute, We were still out there fishing in sailboats in 1951. What about the story that me and guys were still around? They could talk about it. And so I just became fascinated with that history. And of course, the sailboat is the iconic image of that commercial fishery in my mind.

00:44:09:13 - 00:44:31:19
Tim Troll
And then I put together a book and a traveling exhibit of photographs from that and collected interviews. And one of the sessions we were presenting in Homer, a lot of people showed up for because there's a strong connection between Hallmark and Bristol Bay. And somebody said, Hey, I got one of these sailboats. Let's go out back and I'll show it to you.

00:44:32:00 - 00:44:52:11
Tim Troll
So after the presentation, myself and another friend of mine and actually Sullivan and my Munson, who was his sister, who did fish sailboats for a little bit, went over, looked at it. Now it looked like it was a boat. It could be actually fixed up and. Right. And it was already floating. I think Mel mentioned, well, we need to see one of these things back in Bristol Bay.

00:44:52:13 - 00:45:12:16
Tim Troll
And so that was the spark of the idea that we should actually let's take one back to Bristol Bay, because many of them came over, came out of Bristol Bay. Long story short is we're finally got that boat ready and we're going to plan. We've planned to sail it back two years ago, but Coby got in the way.

00:45:12:16 - 00:45:37:11
Tim Troll
Then the filmmaker we had unfortunately passed away and we had to get a new sail made for it. And so that put us off. This year we're ready to go. And the importance to me for the project is one, we'll be sailing it from Homer across Cook Inlet over the Portage into Lake County on that, which is an old traditional portage.

00:45:37:13 - 00:46:08:20
Tim Troll
And the first village we're going to visit is Pedro Bay. So I'm cool. The idea, I mean, it to me brings it brings attention to the fact that the sailboat is an iconic image that says this fishery has been around for a long time beyond what current memory can remember in terms of the beginning. And Pedro Bay is taking one of the biggest efforts since to protect that fishery.

00:46:08:22 - 00:46:55:00
Tim Troll
So we hope the sailboat project brings attention to that effort, the Pedro Bay effort, but also just to help people appreciate this unique history. So the plan is to leave Homer after July 4th and have it in the parade we had in the parade there last year, sail it across the Cook Inlet over the parties, go down like that and arrive in Naknek in time for a festival, which has traditionally been the sort of end of the fishing year celebration and that connect that's gone on for decades and that would be the third weekend in July.

00:46:55:02 - 00:47:22:08
Tim Troll
And so that would be for me, it's been somewhat, I think, fortuitous that we've had to put it off for a couple of years because if if the Alaska Department of Fish and Game is right and everybody believes they will be, this is going to be the biggest return of sockeye on record. So since 1884, we will have more sockeye coming into Bristol Bay to be harvested than ever.

00:47:22:10 - 00:47:53:04
Tim Troll
That's never seen. And what's what's more appropriate than closing the loop with having a sailboat that initiated the start of that fishery in 1884 back to participate in some modest way in the biggest round ever return of Bristol Bay. And again, that biggest run is directly related to the habitat that's all up in the News Act and it's all up on the great Jack and all the other major systems.

00:47:53:06 - 00:48:19:20
Tim Troll
That has been pretty much untouched for all these years. And I mean, that's that's just the bottom line. That's the factory. And why should we try to burn it down and let's do everything we can to make sure it doesn't burn out because there's no reason why we can't fish that fishery for another hundred and 34 years, preferably without sailboats, but no reason.

00:48:19:20 - 00:48:30:23
Tim Troll
It can't be around for, well, easily for another hundred or four years. If not forever. So that's that's kind of that little story that goes behind that symbol.

00:48:31:01 - 00:49:18:19
Mark Titus
Tim, The vision of this, I just love the the big, big picture vision that then takes and meets the confluence of actual experiential action on the ground. But I can't possibly see another word that augments what you just described. It's so perfect. And obviously I wish you fair seas and good good company. And you are. Are there ways are there ways that folks can participate in this in some way follow along with you on this journey and, you know, have some is there any kind of social media or anything involved that folks can, you know, kind of see what you're up to as this thing's unfolding?

00:49:18:21 - 00:49:44:05
Tim Troll
Well, we do have a Facebook page called Sail Back to the Bay on Facebook. And there we have a posting in progress on the you know, as the boat is privately on fellow islands. It is a very interested in the history of the region that is posted you know what is done to fix the boat up and we've just been posting other stuff there and that's kind of where we're keeping people up to date.

00:49:44:07 - 00:50:11:16
Tim Troll
Hopefully we'll be doing more as that time gets closer so people can follow the trip if they want to. And they're just the boss of neat stories along the way. So we're hoping to stop in every village for a day or so and, you know, put on more presentations, let people see the boat, because I think most of the sailboat fishermen, if there are any left, they're in their late nineties probably by now.

00:50:11:16 - 00:50:41:11
Tim Troll
But everybody out there has a family connection to the boat because their fathers and grandfathers would have fished in them are great grandfathers and the boats themselves were converted to power and survived in the fishery probably for another 20 some years. And so people who first started in the fishery as young men who are now and my age, what a fish them as conversions, what it's called a conversion.

00:50:41:13 - 00:51:10:00
Tim Troll
So I just think it's a it's a neat way to bring the whole story together with a beautiful boat because they were beautiful boats and a fishery that's just been around a long time. And we all have responsibility for protecting that fishery. And Pedro Bay has stepped up to the plate to really take action to do that, and I think rightfully so.

00:51:10:03 - 00:51:47:16
Mark Titus
So yeah, no kidding. And, you know, on that note of the people, the people that have been in this region that you love and I love for millennia, thousands of years, you and I recently got to spend some time together with with folks from around the region, mostly indigenous elders and other younger warriors for Bristol Bay in a gathering in King Salmon last month in April.

00:51:47:18 - 00:52:05:19
Mark Titus
What have you observed you have worked with the people that have been in this land and around these watersheds for time immemorial. What have you observed about the spirit and heart of the people and their connection to wild salmon in this incredible place?

00:52:05:21 - 00:52:29:08
Tim Troll
Well, it's not it's not difficult to observe the connection that people in the region have to wild salmon. And that's true throughout all of southwestern. I mean, I was a naive person when I first came to Alaska in 78. I don't think you know, I look at I don't think we're even in a salmon growing up that I can recall.

00:52:29:08 - 00:52:52:15
Tim Troll
And I ask my brother that and my sisters and I, we couldn't really remember anything. And then you come to Alaska and it's like salmon is that you see it everywhere every summer, fish camps and and of course around the fish camp is just about salmon. It's about family, it's about extended relatives. It's about all joining together to do something.

00:52:52:15 - 00:53:30:02
Tim Troll
And that's harvest. Harvest this fish for for their sustenance. It's it's so it's more than just catching a fish and you see that through the generations and you know and and king salmon are at every meeting I've been to really and now I've watched it at least in this particular area for 20 years. And you see people, you know, as young boys or young girls who are now leading this particular fight and have come to.

00:53:30:02 - 00:54:03:05
Tim Troll
Yes. Replace people like Bobby Andrew and Phil Olson and Terry, hopefully, and others who were so very instrumental in the beginning and who aren't with us anymore. But they have people have come to take their places, which is just wonderful to see. So in that sense, it gives me it gives me hope that that that fishery can remain there forever.

00:54:03:07 - 00:54:30:18
Tim Troll
And the important thing is to realize that, one, the fishery is shared with more than just the local people who live there. You know, our commercial fishery, the bulk of people who come there do not live in that region and may not appreciate the fact that really they are dependent upon those people who do live in that region to protect their resource that they get to benefit from.

00:54:30:20 - 00:55:22:23
Tim Troll
And sometimes I don't think that connection is adequately made. So those people in the commercial fishing industry and in the sport fishing industry who, you know, particularly the sport fishing industry, have really led the fight against Pebble in the early days. You know, if Pebble has done anything, I hope it makes folks who come to that region either as tourists or sport fishermen or come to that region every year to participate in the fishery, come to appreciate and support the people who live in the region and use that resource and who actually own a lot of the land that ultimately will provide the product that sport fishermen and commercial fishermen use.

00:55:23:01 - 00:55:49:08
Tim Troll
And so if there's anything that comes out of having because we've all been united in this particular effort to protect was, well, as you say, we all love and a valuable for each each particular user that that continues beyond this fight and that we don't lose that particularly those who use the resource but don't live in the region.

00:55:49:10 - 00:56:02:17
Tim Troll
I respect the people who do live in the region and need that resource. And what we've been able to accomplish doesn't get lost in the future.

00:56:02:19 - 00:56:04:05
Mark Titus
And so eloquently.

00:56:04:07 - 00:56:09:04
Tim Troll
The group that we had in King Salmon, I'm hopeful that that's the case will be.

00:56:09:06 - 00:57:05:07
Mark Titus
Yeah, well, I was certainly was buoyed by that connection between elders and young. And there are some incredible young people that are leading this this moving forward. And I feel like we are in wonderful, wonderful hands as we start to wrap this conversation up. For now, I just wanted to point out an observation that leads me to my last question for you, that I didn't realize that in the early parts of your work, specifically with regard to the the proposed Pebble site and the watersheds in that area, that the two Erik and the Tully and the other streams that are flowing into the main arteries that you actually worked with Pebble at some some point

00:57:05:07 - 00:57:53:09
Mark Titus
and at least in a spirit of cooperation to try to get some some data. And I want to parlay that into this final question for you, which is, you know, we are in a divided, polarized tribal time in this country and around the world, but in particular in this country. What's your vision? What can you speak to based on your experience with making a place for others at a long table of human experience to work toward supporting the things that we mutually love together, that that absolutely evaporate political lines and some of the other dogmatic things that have separated us.

00:57:53:11 - 00:58:02:00
Mark Titus
What what can you say to offer some encouragement toward finding common ground together?

00:58:02:02 - 00:58:38:03
Tim Troll
Isn't that the question we're all struggling with, regardless of whether it's a pebble or anything else? I don't know. I think in the early days you were somewhat hopeful that, you know, that we particularly with the the folks who are sort of overseeing the Pebble project back then when we started up that if if our goal can we do a product project like this and protect the salmon resource, that we can do that together.

00:58:38:05 - 00:58:59:03
Tim Troll
But it would be a together thing and maybe come to a mutual decision that, okay, the mine can happen in the years the way we can make it happen. Okay, The mine can't happen unless it's not. Take the risk. I don't know how I ultimately resolve that. I mean, at the end, Pebble thought they had a project that would do that.

00:58:59:03 - 00:59:29:06
Tim Troll
But of course we differed in terms of of the long term impacts of that. In the end, I think it to me it goes back to there are people have been living in this particular region for thousands of years and this has been a struggle with the mining industry all along, is oftentimes those resources are where Indigenous people live and.

00:59:29:08 - 01:00:05:05
Tim Troll
Should we give the indigenous people who live there basically the veto over a project? And and I think yes, but how that all works out, I don't know. I don't think Pebble started this whole thing thinking they, you know, they're out here to just get rid of a salmon industry. But in the end they have their interests and in the end the salmon are there and they have just been able to not show that they can do that without risk, without removing lots of uncertainties.

01:00:05:07 - 01:00:36:11
Tim Troll
And, you know, I like to go back to a statement I found in the very first issue of the day, the Territorial Board of Fish and Game that was formed in 1948 before we were state in a statement that they said at the front of that that basically said, we understand that we're a developing state and a developing state needs to develop its resources, etc., etc., etc., etc. mining, forestry, whatever.

01:00:36:13 - 01:01:06:15
Tim Troll
But we have the greatest resource available to us right now, and that's salmon. And while yes, we have to do all of these, we need to be looking at these other things in the bottom line. If we can't do those without protecting the salmon, then we probably shouldn't do them because salmon has been there for a long time and people don't like to just draw the comparison that people coming to Alaska think, it's a mining state because we had the Klondike gold rush and we see all those great pictures.

01:01:06:17 - 01:01:33:22
Tim Troll
1898 the salmon started in 1878, 20 years before in terms of the commercial fishery. So really we are a salmon state. We're not a mining state. But, you know, I, I can't offer you anything that says how we can bring those together. But I think if people approach things as human beings, as opposed to corporate CEOs, I think we can get there.

01:01:33:22 - 01:01:40:22
Tim Troll
But that seems to be increasingly more difficult, more so. Well.

01:01:40:23 - 01:02:17:17
Mark Titus
If you learn anything, especially after this period of being disconnected through a pandemic, our human connection is vital. We need it as as a species. And I think that just by perpetuating contact, connection and sharing our commonalities, the things that we do love and need in our lives, you know, food, clean water, family, love those, you know, these resources.

01:02:17:17 - 01:02:53:03
Mark Titus
The end and beyond resources, the connection to things like salmon, that man, they define us. They define, you know, clearly the people that have been here for thousands of years, but even US interlopers who have been lucky enough to drift into salmon country from our our parents and grandparents. I just delivered a keynote address yesterday with a at a conference considering life without Salmon and the address that I gave, I titled it The Alchemy of Grief.

01:02:53:04 - 01:03:29:04
Mark Titus
Like we got to go through this thing, touch this thing, especially folks here in the lower 48 that have really lost the resource. Bristol Bay is not like that. And if we can can come together as Bristol Bay has facilitated all kinds of different people, sport fishermen, commercial fishermen, tribes, conservationists, let's face it, rich CEOs and people coming from the East Coast that know how beautiful and incredible this place is as a fishery for sportfishing.

01:03:29:06 - 01:03:56:14
Mark Titus
You know, that love part is is big deal and I, I for 1 a.m. just so excited about the work that you've already been able to put together going it the way that you have with all of the people and all the resources and all the the folks that you've banded together to find some protection for Bristol Bay, regardless of Governmental organizations.

01:03:56:16 - 01:04:34:09
Mark Titus
And and I love this story that you're tying this 100 plus year old fishing industry to the veneration for this land and protecting it in the fishery and with through the double under sailboat adventure, you're about to do so all that to say thank you. And I'm not going to let you escape, though, without without playing the bonus round, which if you've listened to this show, you know no one escapes from it's I can't remember a little mental exercise, but but it's fun and it's fascinating what people come up with.

01:04:34:09 - 01:04:57:03
Mark Titus
So here goes. Let's say, God forbid, in a knock on wood, the tsunami were to come and be on the way and you only had to a couple of minutes to get out, even a couple of seconds to get out. One physical thing from your house before the floodwaters come. What would that one physical thing be? Well, actually, I.

01:04:57:03 - 01:05:05:09
Tim Troll
Faced that situation once living in Dillingham. We lived in a house and there was a tundra fire moving towards a subdivision.

01:05:05:11 - 01:05:06:14
Mark Titus
While we were all told.

01:05:06:14 - 01:05:21:22
Tim Troll
To get out. And I was downtown working at the time. And so I drove out and went up to the barricades and I said, I don't know where my wife and my kids are. I need to go in and see if they're there. So they let me see where to go, look at them and fortunately look for them.

01:05:21:22 - 01:05:37:14
Tim Troll
And fortunately they weren't there. So here was the possibility of my house is going to burn down. I had this opportunity, what am I going to save? I looked at the care, decided not to calculate.

01:05:37:16 - 01:05:38:09
Mark Titus
But I came out.

01:05:38:10 - 01:06:02:00
Tim Troll
And I came out with two things. I had my dad's letters from World War Two, and I didn't want them to be lost. And the second thing was I had an autographed baseball from Roberto Clemente, and I actually, you know, saw him sign and I said, Those are two things that I have to have. I mean, I had to say quickly.

01:06:02:00 - 01:06:09:20
Tim Troll
But those are the two things I picked up and took out. Fortunately, again, the house didn't burn down, but I actually made that choice.

01:06:09:22 - 01:06:22:22
Mark Titus
That, okay, so I've asked that question dozens of times now, and that is the first time anybody's actually been through that and actually made a choice. That's incredible. And those are two very worthy choices, I might add.

01:06:23:03 - 01:06:27:05
Tim Troll
My kids had been there and had taken them, but they fortunately, they weren't.

01:06:27:07 - 01:06:50:19
Mark Titus
Yeah, well, we're we're we're assuming the loved ones and the critters are coming to us first. But that's a wonderful answer. Second, and the second question of three is now on a more metaphysical level, attributes about you that make you yourself. If you could only take two to move forward in life with, what would those two attributes.

01:06:50:19 - 01:07:00:01
Tim Troll
Be attribute to? And I think of myself as taking forward the future.

01:07:00:03 - 01:07:14:04
Mark Titus
Yeah, if you can only take like, say, your sense of gratitude or your spirit of generosity or the things that make you really fundamentally who you are, what would those two things be?

01:07:14:06 - 01:07:38:04
Tim Troll
Well, I wouldn't that would be a hard one to answer. Well, I live with my name troll for a long time, and it's come to serve me well in some cases. And in other cases it's been a problem because Troll has taken up a whole different meaning in this world than it did when I was growing up. And that was just a little while ago.

01:07:38:05 - 01:07:50:20
Tim Troll
It's like, So I'd like to think I like to think the troll name in Alaska has done well for itself, and I do want to carry that forward. And fortunately I have a new grandson that's going to do that.

01:07:50:22 - 01:07:52:14
Mark Titus
Yeah.

01:07:52:16 - 01:08:32:17
Tim Troll
And second of all, jeez, I would I am I'm been very grateful to be engaged in that, actually, almost all my time in Alaska with the U.P. people in southwestern Alaska, whether it's Bristol Bay or whether it's in Delta. And I would hope that they would think of me as someone who did right by them as opposed to the other alternatives.

01:08:32:19 - 01:09:04:02
Tim Troll
And I think it's some of the things that I've been able to do either successfully or not successfully, that I sit back and I take I think I did my best. So so I would hope that that that would be one thing that we go forward is that maybe a few of the things that I've worked on, like Pebble or not Pebble but Bristol Bay or you picked down that are things that would continue.

01:09:04:04 - 01:09:12:15
Mark Titus
So beautiful. Lastly, is there is there anything you'd leave behind to be washed away?

01:09:12:16 - 01:09:18:18
Tim Troll
What I hope to leave behind my dad's war letters and autographed baseball of Roberto Clemente.

01:09:18:20 - 01:09:33:06
Mark Titus
So to be consumed by the flood water, like, was there anything that you'd leave to just be, you know, consumed and purified out of your life.

01:09:33:08 - 01:09:56:14
Tim Troll
purified out of my life? I have a few really bad paintings that I've done in my life that they were never or are writing. You know, those are things that I need to take care. Getting rid of those before I'm not here anymore so that nobody has to see them.

01:09:56:16 - 01:10:25:16
Mark Titus
man, that's drastic. Yeah. I have a draft of my first screenplay. That would be great. Well, fantastic. Tim Toole, thank you so very much for your generosity of time and wisdom. And I'm so excited about these projects you have going on. For those of us listening out there who want to participate again, can you tell us where we can go to number one, get involved to, support the Pedro Bay Rivers project.

01:10:25:21 - 01:10:32:22
Mark Titus
And then number two, to follow along with the double ender boat adventure that you're doing this summer.

01:10:32:23 - 01:10:54:00
Tim Troll
Well, I'll follow up with you so that people can access it through your site. But obviously, the Bristol Bay Heritage Land Trust has a website you can donate to either project there by just hitting the donate button, selecting what project you want to go to. And then the conservation fund has a whole page and you can just type that in.

01:10:54:02 - 01:11:17:11
Tim Troll
You know conservation fan Pedro Bay and you'll find the donation page for that group And if you're traveling to Bristol Bay this summer, you know in the lodges or whatever, there's information all about the Peter Bay project and we please if you love flying to Bristol Bay and hope to have it there when your kids are ready to go to Bristol Bay, this is the kind of project you want to invest in.

01:11:17:13 - 01:11:31:11
Mark Titus
So control where the wind's at your back and may you travel safely. Cannot wait to see you again up in Bristol Bay. And thank you so much. We'll see you down the trail.

01:11:31:13 - 01:11:36:12
Tim Troll
All right, Mark, thanks for. Thanks for the conversation. Really appreciate it.

01:11:36:14 - 01:11:44:03
Music
How do you say the word you?

01:11:44:05 - 01:11:51:12
Music
How do you say what you.

01:11:51:14 - 01:12:14:02
Mark Titus
Thanks for joining us here on Say what You Love. If you'd like to support our work, you can subscribe to this podcast through your favorite podcast or at evaswild.com. That's the word save spelled backwards Wild dot com. And if you like these conversations, you can help them coming your way by giving us a rating and a review on Apple Podcasts.

01:12:14:02 - 01:12:40:09
Mark Titus
Follow us on Instagram at Save What You Love Podcast. This episode was produced and hosted by me, Mark Titus, and edited by Patrick Troll. Say What You Love is a partnership between Eva's Wild stories and Magic Canoe in collaboration with the Salmon Nation Trust, and this episode was recorded on the traditional homelands of the Duwamish, people whose practices and spiritualities were and are tied to this land and water.