Save What You Love with Mark Titus

00:00:00:08 - 00:00:28:23
Mark Titus
Welcome to the Save What You Love podcast. I'm your host, Mark Titus. On today's show, I welcome friend and James Beard Award winning chef Renee Erickson. Renee is an award winning chef, restaurateur, artist and author based here in Seattle, and Renee bought the beloved Boat Street Cafe here in 1998 and went on to form Sea Creatures, her Seattle restaurant group, including heralded restaurants like The Walrus and Carpenter,

00:00:29:00 - 00:01:04:07
Mark Titus
The Whale Wins, Westward and Lioness. Her new cookbook, Sunlight and Breadcrumbs, explores the surprising wonder and satisfaction you can find in making everyday food, inspiring us all to cook creatively, Renee decided to reconnect with her creativity by painting, taking photographs, making ceramics, and of course, cooking everything you will find inside its charming pages. As a backstory, Renee graduated from the University of Washington with a BFA in Painting and Printmaking and currently serves on the board of U-dub School of Art, plus Art history plus design.

00:01:04:09 - 00:01:32:01
Mark Titus
She lives in Seattle's Phinney Ridge neighborhood with her husband Dan Caleb and her pooch Bowie. In this episode, Renee and I talk about her new book, Sunlight and Breadcrumbs, taking the circuitous path to find your passion art intersecting with food, the treasure of growing up in the Pacific Northwest, food and business as social activism, crabbing and fishing for dogfish and the sanctity of salmon.

00:01:32:03 - 00:02:02:08
Mark Titus
Doing something in the face of challenges. This is a great episode with a good friend, and I hope you enjoy it, and I hope you've enjoyed this season of the Save What You Love podcast. We're going to be back for another season early summer next year. If you haven't had a chance to subscribe yet, please do so and if you wouldn't mind giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts, writing a review really helps create the exposure needed to keep this thing moving out into the world.

00:02:02:10 - 00:02:42:17
Mark Titus
Thanks for being a part of this audience and we'll see you down the trail.

00:02:06:15 - 00:02:11:05
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:02:42:19 - 00:02:47:00
Mark Titus
Chef Rene Erickson, it's good to see you. Where are you coming to us from today?

00:02:47:02 - 00:02:55:06
Renee Erickson
Hi. I'm in the basement of my home on Phinney Ridge. Basement from, noisy dogs and other things. Upstairs.

00:02:55:06 - 00:03:03:14
Mark Titus
Yes. Where all the magic happens. Basements. And, I have a dog here right next to me, sleeping for now. We'll see how this goes. But yes. Good job.

00:03:03:14 - 00:03:14:20
Renee Erickson
Yeah, mine is very active in the morning. Is. And this the rain this morning was. We didn't get him out on his normal long walk. So he gets at that later on today. But we're now we'll see.

00:03:14:21 - 00:03:36:22
Mark Titus
We'll see. We had a we had a tough night over here at Casa de la Titus. The, our oldest pup, Ruby has had sour stomach, which meant, Ruby pacing and tapping, tick, tick, tick. Tapping on the floor, hour on the hour. And one of us having to get up and take her outside. So, you know, that's nice.

00:03:36:22 - 00:03:38:02
Renee Erickson
I don't know what that means.

00:03:38:02 - 00:03:58:18
Mark Titus
Well-rested. Yes. But God bless. And we wouldn't know what to do without these dogs. So. Yeah. You know, really, I'm so happy to see you here. This has been a long time coming, and, we're going to go rogue here a little bit today. Ordinarily, I'd like to start on the show with just letting you, go on your bio and your history and where you're from.

00:03:58:22 - 00:04:18:17
Mark Titus
But I'm so stoked about your new book, and I just want to go right into that right out of the get go here. Sunlight and bread crumbs, making food with creativity and curiosity. It's beautiful. I know so much went into this. Tell us about the inspiration for this book and the building of this beauty.

00:04:18:19 - 00:04:51:03
Renee Erickson
Yeah, well, so it's my third cookbook. And just real quickly, the first and second books, about a whale and a walrus and then getaway. We're much more about other people that have been influenced are influential to me and other places that have been influential to me. And this book is far more about me and kind of my history of cooking and growing up around food and, and also my connection to the creative, world.

00:04:51:03 - 00:05:13:02
Renee Erickson
So I kind of dive into my history as an art student at University of Washington and how, that education and my exposure to artists kind of throughout my life had been really influential to me as a cook, but also as a human. And how those two things kind of go together. And so, yeah, this book is, much more personal.

00:05:13:02 - 00:05:35:23
Renee Erickson
And I also, we spent a lot of time working on it. It was about two and a half years of writing the book with Sarah Dickerman and also, shooting all the photos and doing all the illustration painting. So it was, it was very good exercise for me to do it, you know, by the end, I was really ready for it to be over.

00:05:35:23 - 00:05:57:23
Renee Erickson
And I was like, okay, this has been I've been dragging this around for a while, so it's really nice to have it finished. And I think there's something so rewarding about that point of it. It's such a mountain to climb to get it to, you know, to ship off, to be printed. And so once it shows back up, you've had a little bit of break away from it, which is always really nice.

00:05:57:23 - 00:06:09:22
Renee Erickson
And, seeing it, in real life is such a, really great thing. So, yeah, it's fun. It's it's harder to always. I'm really great about talking about everyone else and everything on.

00:06:10:04 - 00:06:10:11
Mark Titus
Tell me.

00:06:10:11 - 00:06:13:15
Renee Erickson
About it. That matter to me. But talking about yourself is always really weird.

00:06:13:15 - 00:06:39:16
Mark Titus
So, yeah, I hear you. I'm. I'm the same way. I, I love the book. It's beautiful. And, you know, in the, in my, my world of film, you see, folks sometimes, producing a film, directing a film, writing a film, scoring a film, you know, doing all kind of the big principal creative pieces. And you kind of took that on a little bit here in the book and with with the illustrations.

00:06:39:18 - 00:06:57:00
Mark Titus
Was that something you set out to do? Did you discover that along the way, and did it bring you more satisfaction having that ground, root level creative inspiration from the get go and including it in the final version of the book?

00:06:57:02 - 00:07:18:13
Renee Erickson
Yeah. So it was, when I put the proposal together, it was the intent that I do that the photography part less so, only because, I had been working with Jim Hankins for the previous two books, but then he moved to New York and, and a few other things kind of happened where I was curious about taking more photos.

00:07:18:13 - 00:07:41:09
Renee Erickson
And I take a lot with my my phone all the time. And I think visually I'm like always kind of thinking about things. But I was like, well, maybe I could take the photos for the book. So that was a bigger, hurdle, I think, to get the publisher to believe that I could do it. But, we eventually got there and, yeah, it was good.

00:07:41:09 - 00:08:04:11
Renee Erickson
It was a I think it's a it was a really good exercise. It was something that I don't think I would do entirely. Again, I would have like co photographer. Because I think what I found was that, hey, it's a ton of work to do. All of it, but also, you know, it's, there's, there's, you know, it's just nice to see things through other people's eyes as well.

00:08:04:11 - 00:08:27:15
Renee Erickson
And so to have the variety as a, as a, I think a really positive thing. But there's a lot of photos that get missed. I think if you are thinking about things in regards to the book, and there's a moment where you see it and you want to take an image or take a photo and, you know, maybe the photographer is not there, or maybe you're by yourself or whatever.

00:08:27:15 - 00:08:50:19
Renee Erickson
And so that kind of flexibility was something that I think would be if I were to ever do another book again, which I probably will not. But having, you know, moments where you see something and you can just take the photo without asking someone to come get it, or, you know, to kind of like, recreate it is a really fun way of having images.

00:08:50:19 - 00:09:09:15
Mark Titus
I do that a lot myself, as you know, light and fast and kind of show up and it's a, there's, there's drawbacks and there's definitely advantages. And the advantages are just one of them. A big one is, is, like you said, when the subject presents itself, you can go, you don't have to. Yeah. Quick, assemble the team.

00:09:09:15 - 00:09:42:15
Mark Titus
And you know, work all the, the logistics out. I know two in in making a film, on the back end of it, especially in the edit part of things having my partner, Eric Frith. Boy, what a what a joy that's been to have another set of eyes. And so I wonder if there was any time where you felt like, you kind of, you know, paint yourself into a corner or, man, I wish I had another, another locomotive here to move this train forward.

00:09:42:17 - 00:10:06:08
Renee Erickson
Sure. I mean, I always I think, I did have two people, Eric Tra, who works with us at Sea Creatures. And then Jim, kind of look at them, you know, midway through it, just so that I could have some assurance that I wasn't, you know, making terrible images and then also, like, helping me make sure that the quality was there.

00:10:06:09 - 00:10:24:23
Renee Erickson
Yeah. I, you know, like, I but I, I agree that there's sometimes it's, you know, you can't have the best of everything, right? Like, I think that the, the team effort, you know, like you said, it's like there's certain things that you lose in certain than you use, certain things you gain depending on which way you go.

00:10:24:23 - 00:10:53:19
Renee Erickson
So, I'm glad I did it. It was a ton of work. I think I learned a lot about, how to try to be really organized with images and that I'm really bad at it. And, Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think a little bit of my challenges just kind of too many irons in the fire and all the times, you know, like if I were just writing cookbooks and or just shooting images, that would be something that I think I could get my hands around.

00:10:53:19 - 00:11:01:16
Renee Erickson
But, it's like all of those things, including restaurants and, it's a it's the jungle, for sure.

00:11:01:16 - 00:11:24:12
Mark Titus
I intimately understand of which you speak. And. Well, okay. So that's that's wonderful. Thank you for sharing on process. And I know it's a little painful too, but, tell us about the food. Let's get to the good stuff. What was the inspiration on the food side in this book? What do we have to look forward to when we're opening this up and using it at home?

00:11:24:14 - 00:11:52:19
Renee Erickson
So it is a book for home cook. So it is intentionally trying to be approachable. You know, it's not very restaurant. You know, there's some things obviously, but in general it's really approachable. It is let's see, there was actually kind of an interesting, challenge. I think there's, you know, the first cookbook I wrote, like, there was probably 100 recipes that I had to edit out.

00:11:52:21 - 00:12:15:02
Renee Erickson
And then, I think having this be my third, like, I felt like there are some things that just, like the bread pudding recipe that's in the book. It's a different version. And I think I had to kind of get over the fact that I already use the recipe in that, like tweaking it a little bit doesn't mean that it's still not a good recipe to have in the book.

00:12:15:04 - 00:12:33:20
Renee Erickson
So I felt like there was some challenges with me personally where I was like, does this, you know, will anyone actually care about this or should I even bother or should I bother putting it in? There's some simple things that like Green Goddess, it's just a little bit different than a different version of Green Goddess. There's a million versions, right?

00:12:33:22 - 00:12:55:17
Renee Erickson
So just, that challenge of trying to, like, sort through all that would go into it, I think was harder on this third go to try to make sure I was being creative enough and like, authentic to like how I really cook. And also, you know, giving myself, you know, kind of freedom to redo things, I guess.

00:12:55:17 - 00:13:20:07
Renee Erickson
So a little bit of all of that. And there's like, there's a whole chapter on vegetables, which was really fun to work through, that I think are very seasonally focused, surprising to me, like a lot of good winter recipes or fall winter recipes, which I think, is it's, I think it's easy to write summer vegetable recipes because they're just so, so imperfect.

00:13:20:09 - 00:13:42:06
Renee Erickson
But there's like a CSA slaw. That was something that I do every winter is I buy a CSA from local roots and, you know, like, by the end of it, you're like, God, I hate, you know, celery root and, whatever, you know, like cabbage and carrots, all the things. But I think, I started making them into, like, versions of coleslaw, essentially.

00:13:42:06 - 00:14:08:06
Renee Erickson
So, like, with beets and celery root and carrots and, you know, anything really that would come in my CSA and that became a recipe for the cookbook because I thought it was such a, I don't know, it's like a nice, fresh, simple way of dealing with other vegetables. And, I don't, you know, like, I've had pumpkin soup already twice this fall, and I'm now maybe close to being tired of it.

00:14:08:08 - 00:14:34:14
Renee Erickson
So, trying to come up with things that are just a little, less common. And, yeah, there's a whole chapter on anchovies and how to use them, which I really love. Kind of speaking to, it as an ingredient versus its own component, as well as just kind of showcasing anchovies. There's a whole dessert chapter, which my second book doesn't have any desserts in it.

00:14:34:15 - 00:14:54:22
Renee Erickson
It we sent, we basically got rid of desserts and had cocktails. So, there's, a lot of, like my favorite nostalgic desserts are in this book, including, like, a really delicious rice pudding cake that, Carla Donati from Cafe Largo gave me to put in the book, which is a recipe that I've loved for, gosh, almost 30 years.

00:14:54:22 - 00:15:03:21
Renee Erickson
And, I know now why she doesn't make it at the restaurant anymore, because it's kind of a pain. But to make it as one is really wonderful. So yeah.

00:15:03:22 - 00:15:08:23
Mark Titus
Sara stand out. Do you have a favorite favorite recipe in this book?

00:15:09:01 - 00:15:27:10
Renee Erickson
You know, there's an anchovy toast like a mountain anchovy toast in the book that I really love. That was an accident. Essentially, I had these really incredibly beautiful anchovies that I thought would be interesting to see. Like, if I could, like, fry them really quick, which, which turned into just melted anchovy.

00:15:27:10 - 00:15:28:11
Mark Titus
So I was.

00:15:28:11 - 00:15:51:23
Renee Erickson
Like, wow, what am I going to do with these? And I put it on a piece of toast. And it was, so incredibly delicious. And, you know, and it's not anything new. It's like behind the counter or whatever. But, this had like, kind of like frizzled garlic and, lemon peel in it as well. And, yeah, it's just one of those things that is just so simple but also so satisfying.

00:15:52:01 - 00:16:27:10
Renee Erickson
There's that one else is in there. There's a really delicious, like harissa, ish, harissa adjacent, marinated leg of lamb that I really love that has lots of, like paprika and coriander and, there's a winter wedge basically making a wedge out of, cabbage where you kind of burn the cabbage. So love because, yeah, I do love some iceberg, but I feel like I could you do, do some better vegetable eating than iceberg lettuce.

00:16:27:15 - 00:16:58:17
Mark Titus
Yeah. And I love that you're shedding a spotlight here on the winter veg. You know, it's it's truly not the usually the star in the the annual compendium of, recipes. So, and we're there, we're in you know, we're in the throngs of autumn, certainly heading toward winter. Full bore. And, we're all looking for fresh local, good, delicious ways to eat the bounty of the land still.

00:16:58:17 - 00:17:02:08
Mark Titus
So hooray, hooray! Thank you.

00:17:02:10 - 00:17:26:08
Renee Erickson
Any time. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the favorite. Always for me is chicory. So there's a chicory, Caesar. And, I think we're in for me. Like the vegetable that I look forward the most are all the chickpeas this time of year. So trying to, there's also a really delicious one, which maybe is like the sleeper hit of the book is, scrambled eggs with chicory.

00:17:26:08 - 00:17:49:22
Renee Erickson
So you basically kind of, like, roast the chicory until they're kind of. They give up and they're like, soft and floppy, and then like, quickly scramble, really softly scrambled eggs with the chicory and then a ton of parmesan and balsamic on it. And. Yeah. So it's a really nice, quick dinner, but also just like the perfect breakfast if you, if you like bitter things.

00:17:49:22 - 00:17:50:06
Renee Erickson
So.

00:17:50:07 - 00:17:52:17
Mark Titus
Yeah, that sounds perfect. And.

00:17:52:18 - 00:17:53:10
Renee Erickson
Yeah.

00:17:53:12 - 00:18:21:13
Mark Titus
And coincidentally, they, I decided to fast today and, you're killing me already here two hours into this thing. So, I love it. Hey, so we're going to start easing back into the waters of your origin story as a chef. And professionally, you weren't a chef to begin with. A lot of people don't know that you started out as an art student at the local the local school here, U-dub.

00:18:21:13 - 00:18:30:09
Mark Titus
And, you know, at 25, you had a sharp directional change in your life. What what happened and why? Why did that happen?

00:18:30:13 - 00:18:52:06
Renee Erickson
Right. Well, when I was in school at U-dub, I started working at both Street Cafe as, just one of the many jobs that I had. And, I was probably there maybe 2 or 3 years working for Susan, and, I had worked in hospitality, like restaurant coffee shops all the while, the usual stuff. You know, I was a busser.

00:18:52:06 - 00:19:19:18
Renee Erickson
I did all the fun things and, host and, at that point, I think when I was, working at Bowen Street, it was such a different type of restaurant, like, it was so ugly, Susan and quirky and, you know, didn't really adhere to what seemed to be like the normal rules of restaurant dine in, like the whenever it would have been like the 90s, I guess.

00:19:19:20 - 00:19:51:02
Renee Erickson
And, I just loved it. I loved, like, just all of it. I loved how I loved its location being close to U-dub and having really interesting, guests come in and, I loved that it felt unlike anything I had worked in before. It was really, European, you know, French cafe, kind of country cafe feeling, and so like over time, I just kind of, like, kept doing more and more and more.

00:19:51:02 - 00:20:27:01
Renee Erickson
And, Susan was having a lot of transition in her life. And at one point, it started to encourage me to, like, buy it. And I had or had I graduated, you know, so I went to I went away to Rome, my last year of college. And I think the combination of, like, living in Rome and kind of, starting to understand, like the importance food can have on someone's life, culturally and, you know, like, socially, and then kind of coming back home and working at both street again.

00:20:27:02 - 00:20:44:00
Renee Erickson
I was just kind of enchanted by the idea of a restaurant not necessarily buying it by any means, but then she kept bugging me about it, and I was sort of in between whether I was going to go to graduate school or not, because at that point, I was still thinking that I would be an art teacher.

00:20:44:02 - 00:21:02:19
Renee Erickson
And yeah, so she kept bugging me and, I went away again to Europe. And then when I came back, she was sort of like, well, if you don't, you know, like, if I might sell it to someone else or, you know, like, I need to figure out what to do with this thing. So I asked both my parents and close friends, and they all were like, you should do it.

00:21:02:19 - 00:21:06:18
Renee Erickson
So. So I was 25 and bought a restaurant and.

00:21:06:19 - 00:21:07:14
Mark Titus
End.

00:21:07:16 - 00:21:30:05
Renee Erickson
Had really no proper training, I think. I yeah, it was a quirky restaurant, like there was it, it didn't have like a like now in restaurants all have dishwashers and like machines, as well as humans. But the machine, but we just had, like, a three compartment sink and a stove that was really kind of rickety.

00:21:30:05 - 00:21:57:15
Renee Erickson
And, you know what? I think the best part of all of that was, I think it taught me that, like, you can do a lot with very little. And, I think we, you know, like walrus, I think is a lioness. Owning a restaurant are two really good examples of restaurants that I think kind of are, you know, more like I think people would be surprised at how small our kitchens are in reality to the amount of food and quality that we're putting out.

00:21:57:15 - 00:22:17:08
Renee Erickson
So it's I think a lot of that comes from having worked in a restaurant that was, you know, like really, really, really small and, and had nothing like you know, we didn't have a meat slicer. We didn't. We just had a stove and some refrigerator and, sometimes the stove didn't work. And, you know, it was you just sort of make do.

00:22:17:08 - 00:22:27:08
Renee Erickson
And so I think all of that was a really fun not not at the time fun, but, you know, like, what is it like type two fun when you look back you're like, yeah, that was great fun.

00:22:27:08 - 00:22:28:15
Mark Titus
I have never yeah. That's good.

00:22:28:19 - 00:22:49:16
Renee Erickson
Yeah. But we, we joke about that with type two travel where you're like in the minute, like in the travel. You're like, get me the fuck out of here. Yeah. Then you get home and you're like, that was nice. And you're just like, what just happened? But, yeah. So I'm at a restaurant at 25, essentially. That was my it's my very extreme change of life direction.

00:22:49:18 - 00:23:08:02
Mark Titus
Well, there's such good stories about jumping into the deep end of the pool, you know, not not knowing, you know, jump leaping in the net will appear and, what gave you the courage to do that? How did I mean, that had to have been.

00:23:08:04 - 00:23:08:14
Renee Erickson
Really.

00:23:08:14 - 00:23:09:11
Mark Titus
Exhilarating.

00:23:09:13 - 00:23:35:15
Renee Erickson
Young, right? Yeah. I can't really equate it to anything other than not knowing any better. You know, I just. How bad could it be? I'm really bad, turns out. But, at the time, you know, I think you, I do think the fact that it was, a modest restaurant and also, I been there long enough and working there long enough to kind of see how it functions.

00:23:35:15 - 00:23:53:14
Renee Erickson
So it wasn't entirely foreign to me that, like, I was taking over this place, but, Yeah, I don't know. It was it was it was great. I would do it all over again. I would take that restaurant back in a hot second if I could do. But it's all gone. Well, sadly, it's true.

00:23:53:14 - 00:24:15:11
Mark Titus
There's these halcyon memories, too, about the the situations that gave us the most consternation at the time. Travel or work or otherwise. And, you know, thank goodness for that. That, we're not reveling in the why did I do that part of it, but rather the, you know, hey, made something out of this and made something beautiful out of it.

00:24:15:11 - 00:24:22:03
Mark Titus
And experience is beautiful all the way around, even even when it's hard. It's it defines this, this human existence. Yeah.

00:24:22:04 - 00:24:38:03
Renee Erickson
I mean, restaurants are, I mean, like, amazing and horrific places. In regards to work, and, and will always be that way. I think it's just the nature of, of that kind of work. I mean, it's got to be similar to, like, running a fishing boat or something where you're.

00:24:38:05 - 00:24:40:06
Mark Titus
Just gonna say you're very similar.

00:24:40:08 - 00:24:51:07
Renee Erickson
Constant, and there's just always problems and challenges and, you know, financial and otherwise. And, yeah, you just have to keep going.

00:24:51:09 - 00:25:18:02
Mark Titus
They are similar. I like, like you, I worked pretty much front back of the house in restaurants through high school, college and post just post college and same thing. Know enough about commercial fishing boats to be, you know, dangerous. Yeah, certainly. No. A lot more on the processing side. And, you're right, there's no those things are similar and you don't have this just inherent safety net.

00:25:18:02 - 00:25:42:07
Mark Titus
You got to the things got to keep going. You got to keep moving. Gotta jump in. The bilge pump is broken and you get down there with the duct tape and baling wire and figure it out, you know, same thing in a kitchen. I'm curious, how did your. Because it's evident in the new book, but how how did your art training intersect with your, gravitational pull towards Chef Venus?

00:25:42:09 - 00:26:09:07
Renee Erickson
Yeah. I think, you know, it's funny, I got asked that question a lot early on, and I didn't really understand the connection or I wasn't able to see it. I think the farther down, you know, the kind of path I got, I realized there were, things that felt really natural to me around, like, you know, like simple things, like how I would plant a dish.

00:26:09:09 - 00:26:48:04
Renee Erickson
But even just, like, real strong opinions about, like interior stuff or choices around dishes or flowers or everything, you know, like the whole visual experience of my restaurants. I eventually realized where a lot of that was driven by kind of, creative, kind of training that I had where, you make decisions and, and, experiment on things in regards to how you, you know, in my case, how you draw or paint or apply certain, things to a visual idea.

00:26:48:06 - 00:27:15:01
Renee Erickson
And so, yeah, so I think it had a huge impact on, on on all of it. I think it's also, I think artists, there's a lot of artists in the restaurant industry, I think for a lot of reasons. But one of them, I think is, the, the kind of overlap of just like the durability and the like, intent to, like, just work really hard at something.

00:27:15:01 - 00:27:38:02
Renee Erickson
And I think for restaurants in particular, I think to be good at it, it's, it's a lifetime choice. It's not really a 9 to 5 sort of job. And, you don't really leave it behind. I think you kind of are always thinking about it. And I find that to be true with my friends that are still visual artists that are, you know, they just work, you know, it's their life.

00:27:38:02 - 00:27:58:17
Renee Erickson
It's not their job. And I think there's some, you know, that's a sacrifice, I think in certain aspects to do that as your, you know, way of living because you kind of give up a lot of things. I know restaurants just in general, like your life is the opposite of everyone else's time at work. And so, you know, my bad just alone.

00:27:58:17 - 00:28:26:02
Renee Erickson
But, also, you just, you know, it's it's a lot of, it's a lot, you know, like, you really have to kind of commit to that. And, that felt really, not that I was great visual artist. I think I was, I was, I, you know, I'm a good craftsperson, but I'm not entirely like, I don't, you know, I don't think I have the chops to make it in the art world as far as, like, as a, you know, visual artist that's going to end up in some amazing museum.

00:28:26:02 - 00:28:43:16
Renee Erickson
But, I, you know, really appreciate the effort into, you know, like, that goes into that and how you get there. And, I think restaurants are really similar in that way where you just, you choose to, live that life. You know, I think to do it well, you have to, I would.

00:28:43:18 - 00:28:44:04
Mark Titus
Agree.

00:28:44:05 - 00:28:56:05
Renee Erickson
Noble and fun. I'm, I'm like, I feel lucky that I got to work in this field as much as it has been, challenging, it's been really rewarding to. So.

00:28:56:05 - 00:29:10:12
Mark Titus
Yeah. Well, and and to the rest of us, it's been rewarding. I don't know if you've indulged or tormented yourself with the bear watching that, that, episode or that, episodic series. Yet I'm.

00:29:10:12 - 00:29:13:00
Renee Erickson
A bit I'm kind of annoyed by it, but.

00:29:13:05 - 00:29:15:15
Mark Titus
I was wondering. It's it it's usually.

00:29:15:21 - 00:29:31:13
Renee Erickson
A different story told. Like, I think we're, I, we're we keep telling the same story of what it's like to be a cook and, and I mean, I know, like at the core it's like about relationship. But, I do think you have those without a lot of the bravado and.

00:29:31:15 - 00:29:44:18
Mark Titus
It's it's a lot. And I think most, most folks I've talked to that own or operate or understand intimately the restaurant experience are kind of exhausted by it because it's, it's,

00:29:44:20 - 00:30:06:22
Renee Erickson
One aspect of it. I don't think it's the most interesting or certainly not the thing that I think we should we keep promoting about restaurants. I think there's already about enough kind of wrap that we take for, you know, behavior and abuse and other things and, and not that they don't exist, but it's not it's not in a vacuum.

00:30:06:22 - 00:30:09:04
Renee Erickson
It's not the only thing that totally.

00:30:09:10 - 00:30:36:02
Mark Titus
And I think I think you have to and this isn't why I brought this up. And I'll get to that in one second. But, I think you got to get, you know, past the sort of the day to day stuff in the show, like as a, as a person who is identifies as an alcoholic. It is much more to me about this character who is an alcoholic child of an alcoholic who is like, cannot do good enough.

00:30:36:04 - 00:30:58:07
Mark Titus
Yeah, constantly cannot do good enough. And I, I'm fascinated by that part of it. And sitting here on the couch with my wife and two dogs, we're just like exhausted. Like, that is just too much. It's so much. But yeah, that's not why I brought it up. The way I brought it up was, we watched the latest episode of the latest series, in season.

00:30:58:09 - 00:31:27:01
Mark Titus
And, I happen to think the show was pretty brilliant. And I noticed, like, the, you know, they're they've got their restaurant up and going now, and it's a, it's a high end restaurant, and he's looking for that Michelin star. And the thing that really caught me was the, the visual element of it. And was like, it reminded me of you in the, the flower placement and the, you know, the, the, just everything, the details they had.

00:31:27:01 - 00:31:51:21
Mark Titus
And I was just, like, so much I didn't think about it until I watched it in this show. So much of the experience, the dining experience is visual going into the place. And you, you've done beautiful job at that. I mean, there's a reason you feel the way you feel when you walk into a place, and then the food comes and it it it's part of the mix.

00:31:51:21 - 00:32:11:13
Mark Titus
It's entangled inherently with the entire experience. So just an observation that what you've done, I think is beautiful and, I feel like that artistic piece is enmeshed with with the artistry around the food as well.

00:32:11:15 - 00:32:37:15
Renee Erickson
I agree. Yeah, I think I was a little too young. And, you know, it's hard even in writing the book. Like, it's hard to like, speak to things that might feel a little like. I think early on I would feel like I was like reaching for those connections. And then, you know, I think over time it's just sort of is you're not having to, define it as such.

00:32:37:15 - 00:32:59:00
Renee Erickson
I think it becomes kind of who you are and that that I think it comes with just time. Sure. And kind of repetition and, and kind of doing something over and over again and realizing that there's, you know, there's it's not just, happenstance, you know, like, it's and just accidentally, you know, end up being pretty or interesting or, you know, delicious.

00:32:59:00 - 00:33:01:17
Renee Erickson
It's like effort and, you know, kind of time.

00:33:01:19 - 00:33:28:14
Mark Titus
That is so true. And I remember I kind of I can't remember the attribution now. It might have been Bukowski, I don't know. But, a writer growing up reading saying that, you know, a writer has no business writing a novel until they're, you know, 50. And I was like, that's bullshit. What are you talking about? I got lots of experience as a 22 year old and, you know, what do you, you know, and why is my view of the world any different?

00:33:28:14 - 00:33:47:17
Mark Titus
But I think what you just said about, the repetition, it's like the river water softening a stone. It there's there's something that you can't you can't know when you're 22 that you know, when you're 50. I mean, I think there's some real truth to that. And, Yeah. Yeah. Don't you think.

00:33:47:19 - 00:34:24:21
Renee Erickson
Cumulatively. Yeah, I think so, for sure. I think it's, I mean, I think both things are right. I think the story of a 22 year old is really interesting. Or fill in the blank every, you know, whatever episode of life that is because of the time and the place that you're in. But I do think, like how I speak about what I do now is, is I'm more confident and less like like, I don't even like, I, I'm not worried about saying something because it's like, I feel like it's been like what I've been doing for so long.

00:34:24:21 - 00:34:57:15
Renee Erickson
Like I have like the the the years behind me to, to make it so that, like, what I'm saying is like, yeah, like my art career really, or my art degree and my creative like practice really has influenced and been a huge part of my life as a, as a chef and restaurateur, and that I think I wouldn't have been able to articulate when I was 23 or 25, even though, like, I was really fresh out of art school and had all the art, you know, like, you know, I was reading art news and I was looking at all these sort of things and going to all the openings and, but I didn't have

00:34:57:15 - 00:35:34:23
Renee Erickson
the, the time and the relationship of that to what I do now to make it make sense. But yeah, it's fun. It's it's a I'm very grateful that I kind of landed, in both places, I think I, I, you know, I speak about that in the book a little bit where I was really fortunate, to have parents that, you know, encouraged me into drawing classes when I was ten and then, you know, and still today, you know, are very proud and happy that, I was, you know, 25 when I wanted to buy a restaurant, that they were willing to help me.

00:35:34:23 - 00:35:52:23
Renee Erickson
So I think, that's pretty, pretty uncommon. Do you have someone whose parents both were like, yes, go to art school and, yes, buy a restaurant. I think the things that must be like, are you sure? I don't think that's a great idea. So, I think I, I lucked out.

00:35:53:01 - 00:36:15:20
Mark Titus
Yeah, well, it's beautiful, and, I agree with you too, on the point that there's there is a purity of the. Now, wherever you are in the span of your life. I remember being living in the wilderness when I was 25, in Southeast Alaska. I'd guide in the summer and then take care of the lodge in the winter.

00:36:15:21 - 00:36:45:11
Mark Titus
And, I don't think it was a much about, like, I have it all figured out. I certainly didn't, and I don't even think I had that thought. But I do remember some very real serenity and some real some understanding of my, my sense of place. And so that came as a 25 year old person and probably, you know, some days more readily than, than here is a 52 year old person.

00:36:45:11 - 00:37:06:08
Mark Titus
But yeah, you were just delving into and it's a perfect segue, your parents and experiences growing up. And I'd love to know more.

00:37:06:10 - 00:37:35:01
Mark Titus
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00:38:00:15 - 00:38:20:15
Mark Titus
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00:38:20:17 - 00:38:35:19
Mark Titus
Tell us about growing up in the PNW. What, what are your fondest, most satisfying memories of sense of place of this is wonderful, true, truly to the word wonderful place that we get to live.

00:38:35:21 - 00:39:14:07
Renee Erickson
Right? Who's so lucky? I mean, I think for me, it's everything, like, all of my, like. Like when I think about, like, my favorite moments of being a kid in the northwest and also, just like when I reflect back, like they're all in relationship to the water. And so my folks, before I was born, they bought a cabin, which is up, near, a place called speedboat I, which is, kind of surrounding or kind of within the toilet reservation.

00:39:14:09 - 00:39:38:05
Renee Erickson
And they, bought this little cabin and would go there. My godparents lived there as well. And, when we were kids, we would go there in the summer. We would live in this cabin that had it had cold water. It didn't have and it had a toilet which was outside, but it didn't have, insulation or, heat or like it had a wood stove and, a view of the water.

00:39:38:05 - 00:40:00:09
Renee Erickson
And we were kind of in these big giant big leaf maple tree like forest and, my mom, we would stay there and we would, you know, spend like probably maybe two months, like, probably more like six weeks, there. And my dad would we lived in Woodinville, so my dad would come up on like Thursday and then spend the weekend with us.

00:40:00:09 - 00:40:32:13
Renee Erickson
But, it was, I mean, it still is this, like, incredibly, beautiful place that as a kid was just outrageous because I was able to, you know, walk up the beach and see, Tulalip Fisher fish are like families, essentially, like fish from the beach with those big wheels where they would, you know, like, boat the net out, and then we deal it all in on to the beach, and it would boil with salmon and and everything else that was in the way.

00:40:32:15 - 00:41:01:12
Renee Erickson
And we would, kind of watch and, and kind of witness that, and then we would crab and, yeah. Like, I think just, that, I mean, that, I mean, like incredible, like, like luxury of that, you know, opportunity as a person to be able to eat all that, but also just, You know, like having it become kind of so ingrained in me as something that was so important.

00:41:01:14 - 00:41:29:09
Renee Erickson
I think, was you know, without a doubt, the kind of most important part of my childhood, I would say, and that it felt like I was experiencing something that, very few people would get to do it kind of in the quantity of time that I was able to do it, and also kind of see, you know, how it relates to so many people's lives in the northwest now as a chef, like looking back, it's just like such a it's so, like, incredible.

00:41:29:09 - 00:41:55:01
Renee Erickson
I just feel so fortunate. One of my favorite, like, things that would happen doesn't happen anymore, which is too bad, but, this guy would, come into the bay, which is Port Susan, and he would, like, honk his boat horn. And on the boat he had, like, a little, steam kettle, and he would go shrimping and then steamed shrimp and put them in brown bags and then boat to shore.

00:41:55:01 - 00:42:34:22
Renee Erickson
And we would buy bags of, like, just steamed shrimp and sit on the beach on a log and just eat shrimp and, like, throw the shells in the sea. And, it was insane, like, like that, kind of that, that connection to the water and just how simple it was, was such as, such a, like, really important memory of mine that, I, you know, I, I think there's a lot of what I do when I'm cooking where I really try hard to kind of make that same connection with people where it's like we're by the beach grilling oysters or grilling crab or something, so that, like, people can really see, like how important

00:42:34:22 - 00:43:08:01
Renee Erickson
it is, I think, I guess, I don't know, like, I feel like we kind of get so detached from where our food comes from and how important it is to preserve it, that, making those connections for people and kind of showing them like how, special it is, is, is a big deal. But yeah, like, I just, I think like we didn't it's funny, like, I think about things like I remember, like, we didn't ever eat seaweed or noodles or anything like that, but, like, I would certainly, like, have bull kelp fights with my brother where we would to into that.

00:43:08:03 - 00:43:40:02
Renee Erickson
You know, there's just so much out of all and all of that like, texture. And I remember being stung by nettles all the time, but never once thinking, oh, I could eat this, but, yeah, I think all of it, like, and I'm not a big, like, it's funny, like, I spent so much time out on Hood Canal and, and then now, you know, we have the property up in the Skagit and, I think growing up in Woodinville, surrounded by dug fir trees, like I always was, very much like, I don't want to be surrounded by duct fir trees as an adult if I can.

00:43:40:04 - 00:44:05:14
Renee Erickson
And so it's such a nice contrast to, being up in the Skagit and kind of having that vastness that I think is so unique to that area. But also connected to the water, in a way. I was just like, it's the best of both worlds for me, where I can have, like, big skies and and, in the water without being feeling like I'm going to mold the forest.

00:44:05:15 - 00:44:12:00
Renee Erickson
I like going for a visit, but I don't want to live in that. It's like it's too much. It's too much gray and wet. Damp for me.

00:44:12:02 - 00:44:46:10
Mark Titus
Well that's lovely. Another lovely segue, because I know recently you you've you've got a place in Northern Washington, that is connected by farmland and the sea not too far away, and a river not too far away. And I got the the privilege of getting to spend a little time with you there. It's magical. And, I wonder if that that is a matriculation based on these hard wired memories of.

00:44:46:10 - 00:44:47:21
Mark Titus
Of your youth.

00:44:47:23 - 00:45:13:03
Renee Erickson
Yeah. I mean, I think for sure, I think there's something, it's funny because Dan, my husband, we had talked about looking for like, well, for years we've, like, been like, oh, we could buy a cabin on the canal. And I would always be like, it's a very dark place I don't like. I'll happily go visit and spend as much time as I can, but I'm like, I don't think I could.

00:45:13:03 - 00:45:52:18
Renee Erickson
Like, I couldn't live out there. Like, it's just too, too dark for me. And we like, thought about like Camino and Whitby and on the other, you know, the beautiful places. But I think there's, the scat. It is. I mean, a couple of reasons why. It's like I spent a lot of time there with my parents. We would go up there a lot and kind of drive around and go to the farms and, it just, I don't know, there's something that was so, unlike every other part of Washington about it, like, because of that, because of the farmland, I think, and because of, like, the extreme, shift in, in landscape.

00:45:52:18 - 00:45:54:11
Renee Erickson
It's just it's like, oh, hi, puppy.

00:45:54:11 - 00:45:55:10
Mark Titus
Yeah.

00:45:55:12 - 00:45:56:01
Renee Erickson
It's so.

00:45:56:06 - 00:45:57:11
Mark Titus
Jolly.

00:45:57:13 - 00:46:24:23
Renee Erickson
Hi. You know. Durable. Yeah. The the dramatic bit of it, I think, is the part that has always been the most, alluring to me is that you can have, like, the view out into the San Juans and then, you know, this beautiful, ever changing kind of landscape where the valley is, and then, you know, Mount Baker and the Cascades and everything, and the Olympics.

00:46:24:23 - 00:46:51:05
Renee Erickson
I mean, it's really it's quite stunning of a place and being able to kind of have all that sunlight as well as all of that, you know, everything else, was always something that I think felt really positive and just like, right to me. Yeah, I don't know. And then I think there's also, a really great history of artists up there in that area.

00:46:51:05 - 00:46:57:07
Renee Erickson
And that I think has always been really intriguing to me that that artists have gone to that area to paint and to.

00:46:57:11 - 00:46:58:18
Mark Titus
Oh yeah.

00:46:58:19 - 00:47:03:11
Renee Erickson
And for, you know, for a very long time. So,

00:47:03:13 - 00:47:36:21
Mark Titus
I wonder too, if there's a, deep connection to a source point from where food comes from. I know for me as a, a fisherman and, I haven't hunted in some time, but, I certainly would again, understanding exactly where that food is coming from and and having the opportunity to harvest said food there. For me, there's just an implicit sense of security, of it's like a warm blanket.

00:47:36:21 - 00:48:04:19
Mark Titus
I'm like, okay, I know, you know. And this goes way back. There's our forebears, you know, whether it's the folks that have been on this land for 10,000 years or, you know, my forebears back in Ireland, you know, there there is a real, again, hardwired sense, I think, of security and yearning for understanding that that food, which is we take into us is a part of us is nearby and available.

00:48:04:19 - 00:48:08:07
Mark Titus
Is that maybe a little part of it, too, being near farmland?

00:48:08:09 - 00:48:49:00
Renee Erickson
I think so, for sure. I mean, I think there's, well, not even near, but like having, you know, just things like that, seeing what grew on our property without any effort. This year, that was from the people that lived there before, and then all the fruit trees and, and then, yeah, having, that connection to the Salish Sea and the river, which, you know, all of it's so new to me that I haven't really been able to, you know, really use util as it but, yeah, I mean, I think in, you know, like in our restaurants and in kind of how I think about food is is entirely focusing on

00:48:49:00 - 00:49:10:07
Renee Erickson
as local as possible. And I think being able to be in a place like that and, and, you know, drive to Anacortes, us and see, you know, boats come in and, you know, see what's on the boat that they're catching and, and go, you know, a mile away and see this farm that's growing the most beautiful chickpeas and potatoes that are organic and amazing.

00:49:10:07 - 00:49:28:06
Renee Erickson
And, and then also like, you know, again, like, not very far away, like being able to go get chanterelles that are, you know, just kind of popping up everywhere in the woods is, it feels insane, like I had it. I mean, it's a little bit like, I think right now in the fall to where you walk around, even in Seattle.

00:49:28:06 - 00:49:31:21
Renee Erickson
And there's just like, fruit dropping everywhere. You're just like.

00:49:31:21 - 00:49:32:05
Mark Titus
You know.

00:49:32:06 - 00:49:33:15
Renee Erickson
There's just so much food.

00:49:33:16 - 00:49:34:17
Mark Titus
Amazing.

00:49:34:19 - 00:49:50:19
Renee Erickson
It's, you know, it's a little crazy that, you know, it's so Bountiful. So I had a friend who was here from New York one time in the fall, like, probably like late September. And she was just, like, in or through the neighborhood. It was just like, is that a fig tree is, I don't know, you know, like, she was just like, what on earth?

00:49:50:19 - 00:50:25:12
Renee Erickson
You know, I'm like, well, yeah, you live in Manhattan, but, yeah, I mean, there's there's definitely, kind of an over, like a, a little bit like a kid in a candy store. I would sure like, I can get oysters, I can get crab. I can, you know, like, there's a picture in the book of, the day after when we got back from crabbing up there and we went up through the slew out into the, sandwich Bay and, you know, we came back with 15 Dungeness that were just like, monsters.

00:50:25:12 - 00:50:33:17
Renee Erickson
And it was just like I, you know, like, I don't know that I've ever had so much crab in my life and, it's. Yeah, you're just giddy. It's amazing.

00:50:33:17 - 00:50:57:08
Mark Titus
That's a good word for it. Giddy? Yeah. In the in the abundance. In the splendor. We're going to start winding our way toward an end here, but there's a few things that are pretty important, to touch before we go, your restaurant group is called Sea Creatures. Where did that come from and why seafood and why salmon in particular?

00:50:57:10 - 00:51:01:17
Mark Titus
Yeah, as far as a source of inspiration and and a source of sustenance.

00:51:01:19 - 00:51:24:06
Renee Erickson
Yeah. So I was I mean, I didn't want to camp. I mean, I think it's pretty standard for restaurant groups to be named, you know, Renee Erickson's restaurant. And I really did not want it to be about just me for, for a lot of reasons, but mostly it just felt like, there's so much more to it than me.

00:51:24:06 - 00:51:48:21
Renee Erickson
And so I just wanted it to represent, you know, everybody and kind of the ethos of the company versus just one, one person. And so Sea Creatures was, we would call ourselves that, kind of like internally, like in regards to whale and walrus and Boat Street and, and that was like kind of what we called like the crew of people that work together, being a sea creature.

00:51:48:21 - 00:52:22:01
Renee Erickson
And, and so that was sort of how that became our name. And I think it's fun. It really, it suits us really well. I think it's a group of people that, do really have a desire to be connected to, you know, the sea or the the mountains or, you know, kind of the surroundings that we kind of get to live in and, and harvest from, and, and then the salmon thing, you know, I think, I mean, I grew up fishing.

00:52:22:01 - 00:52:34:02
Renee Erickson
I remember my dad would go, he would get up really early in the morning and go fish. Usually hunt bees, because that's what was, you know, plentiful and still are.

00:52:34:02 - 00:52:36:05
Mark Titus
And pink salmon.

00:52:36:07 - 00:53:01:12
Renee Erickson
Pink salmon. Yes. And we would eat, you know, like, that's what we ate all the time. And, and so, you know, I think because I was a girl, he probably was like, oh, she probably doesn't want to get up at four in the morning and walk down and launch the boat and do all the things, but I would get really mad and I would take our little dinghy out and fish for, dog fish.

00:53:01:14 - 00:53:19:23
Renee Erickson
I was like, I'm going to fish. You're not going to take me? I'm still going up. And I would like row out to the the swim dock and fish off the swim dock. And so eventually I started, I was allowed to go on the boat and, he wasn't, you know, it was very cute. He it's I think his intention wasn't that I was a girl.

00:53:19:23 - 00:53:46:16
Renee Erickson
It was more that I was young and, and so, we we would fish all the time and, and I think, I grew up also trout fishing. My dad's dad had a place down in the, on the lake, and so I, I just became, I don't know, I loved it, I loved, I loved fish, and I loved, particularly loved, running my thumb nail down the spine of the fish when I was cleaning it.

00:53:46:18 - 00:54:21:12
Renee Erickson
And I think, what is wrong with her? But, the clickety clickety. Yeah. And so, salmon was always very much a part of our, our menu as a kid, because it was it was plentiful, especially back then and, especially with pink salmon and, and, and when you, you know, like when you even catch a lot of fish in your, you know, very much at that point, like middle class America, like you, you stock it up and you eat it all all year long.

00:54:21:12 - 00:54:41:20
Renee Erickson
And so we ate a lot of, a lot of salmon and, and I think then, you know, fast forward to me being a chef, I, you know, I remember going to like university seafood and looking at all the fish and being like, what is all, you know, like, they always had salmon, but they always. And they had other like, Washington fish.

00:54:41:20 - 00:55:03:17
Renee Erickson
But like, it definitely seemed like there was like this need for, exotic fish from elsewhere. And it never really made a lot of sense to me. And so I think over time I just kind of focused in on, seafood from here, you know, like as much. But, you know, like, I remember, like, there was a moment where, like, everyone was fine.

00:55:03:17 - 00:55:28:05
Renee Erickson
I think they still are, but I just don't pay attention. But like, branzino farmed in Greece, you know, you're just like I would. Why would I buy this? And, Yeah. So I just became, I think, hyper aware of, of the importance of salmon. And then also the importance of talking about it as something that was endangered.

00:55:28:07 - 00:55:54:17
Renee Erickson
And so that's kind of evolved obviously over time as, as, you know, there's been, you know, far more news and, and kind of stories about the issues around the fishery and, you know, and the challenges around wild salmon. And then also, of course, the huge issues around farmed salmon. And so, yeah, it just became my real focus for me.

00:55:54:17 - 00:56:17:04
Renee Erickson
And then our company to, to really, focus in on what we can, you know, like try to be as, as mindful and, and make wise decisions around sustainable choices that we could serve and, and, you know, without beating it over the head of our guests, trying to impart as much information so that they can understand why we're choosing what we're doing.

00:56:17:04 - 00:56:40:00
Renee Erickson
Because, you know, in all fairness, we don't serve a ton of salmon like we used to. And, you know, most of it is, is frozen, from Bristol Bay. So, yeah, it's changed dramatically. Like, you know, I used to serve, you know, Chinook salmon like crazy. And I would be so excited when I would get a white king and I would just be like, wow, you know, look at this amazing thing.

00:56:40:00 - 00:57:24:11
Renee Erickson
And now it's just, you know, it's so different now, which is sad, but, this is how it is. Yeah, I think I, I think I also think like for a lot of chefs and a lot of chefs here, even in Seattle. Like, it isn't different, you know, I don't know that there really nothing has changed on their choices and that that's the part I think that kind of gets my goat the most, where it's just like kind of like blinders are up and they're just serving what they think people expect versus making choices that are, hopefully like supporting kind of better, industry decisions around what's what, what what should be fished.

00:57:24:13 - 00:57:33:17
Renee Erickson
But I don't know. It's so complicated and hard to, hard to know if you're doing the right thing. Anyways. So I get why it's it's complicated for a consumer as well.

00:57:33:17 - 00:58:02:10
Mark Titus
It's a really important conversation. And I think the, the bottom line is, you know, first of all, there's there's not a tremendous amount of daylight, I think in, in between where I'm sitting and what you're sitting at. And I think it's not only people like you and I that are intimately involved in food, you know, as a purveyor of sockeye salmon from Bristol Bay.

00:58:02:12 - 00:58:31:06
Mark Titus
And, and I think there's a very distinct reason. It's, it's that choice of fish that we got into to sell because of the location of what's at stake. Who benefits from buying it from that sustainable fishery and what it's keeping out, ostensibly a massive open pit copper mine, by using those dollars for, for supporting something that is literally, by definition of the word sustainable, it gets overused.

00:58:31:06 - 00:58:31:17
Mark Titus
Yeah.

00:58:31:19 - 00:58:32:20
Renee Erickson
Right.

00:58:32:22 - 00:59:16:23
Mark Titus
And, you know, I think it's absolutely true that and this is a whole nother podcast. So so we're not we're going to we're not going to delve into all of the intricacies of this today. But I think it is absolutely true that the folks, every one of the commercial, commercial, family owned trawlers in Southeast Alaska, the folks that have launched, lawsuit about, you know, trying to keep them from fishing, the folks that are the on the ground tip of the spear, like you, who are restaurateurs and purveyors of salmon, local fishermen, people that are customers, you know, everybody, I think to a person, if they have any

00:59:17:04 - 00:59:42:02
Mark Titus
semblance of education about Chinook salmon in particular, do not want to be the last person to catch the last Chinook salmon and are in, first of all, live here and, are involved in salmon because they love them and they love everything about them. So it's a long I think we should have another conversation down the line. Yeah.

00:59:42:03 - 01:00:14:10
Mark Titus
With some other folks too, about that, because there are so many nuances about it. What we do know is that, you know, King salmon are having a hard time right now. Our orcas are having a hard time, right, to say the least, right now. And, you know, from where I'm sitting, the biggest thing we can do right now, for sure, and everybody can agree on and get on board with, is insist that we remove and breach the law for snake River dams to keep more Chinook salmon coming back to all of us.

01:00:14:12 - 01:00:38:06
Mark Titus
But, for now, I want to. And we're going to pick that up at another time. For now, I want to amble down this road. You you are an activist for social justice. You were on the leading edge ahead of some time ago, when there was a 15 hour, $15 an hour minimum wage increase. You got ahead of that before it was even enacted.

01:00:38:07 - 01:00:56:12
Mark Titus
Looping in the the eating with your fork part of this and voting with your fork rather part of this, how do you square your sensibility for social justice and the fiscal realities of running a large, complex business?

01:00:56:14 - 01:01:45:21
Renee Erickson
I mean, I think where I land is I don't, thankfully, and I have business partners that support this, that I think we're not we didn't open restaurants to get rich, you know, and I think in order to, we open them to be activists. But I think the reality of, of that power, that you have around choice, is, something that we felt is that I felt and then thankfully, you know, my, coworkers and employees and, and, partners all agree on is that I think that by trying to make the right decision and support something that matters to you, you kind of have a ripple effect of that.

01:01:45:21 - 01:02:24:09
Renee Erickson
And folks can learn about things. And also, hopefully, you know, support us in that by coming to our restaurants and, and supporting our choices in regards to, you know, sourcing and all those sort of things. I mean, I think the, you know, like there's a, the concept of sustainability, obviously, is really challenging. And I think we sort of tried to make it be something that was less about, like salmon and more about like our company and our employees and kind of how we attempt to keep it, going.

01:02:24:10 - 01:02:43:01
Renee Erickson
I think, you know, it's still a business and we still have to pay people and, you know, like, want to try to run it as wisely as possible. But I think, you know, I think we, you know, you know, I think this was something that it wasn't like we set out this like, from, you know, from the beginning where we're like, we're going to do this.

01:02:43:01 - 01:03:04:19
Renee Erickson
And isn't this like it's something that's about over time where you're kind of reacting to, things you're reading about, things you're seeing, just emotions around things and how, you feel when you're serving something, whether it's you feel good about it or not. And same kind of with how we structure our business and that sort of thing.

01:03:04:19 - 01:03:27:08
Renee Erickson
So, I think it's, you know, we're constantly changing. I think we always are kind of thinking about like, should we or shouldn't we do this? Like, we ask our employees for feedback a lot. We send out like, an anonymous survey every year, kind of just in regards to that sort of how we ended up going away from service charge at a certain point.

01:03:27:10 - 01:04:00:07
Renee Erickson
But yeah, like, I think, you know, we're definitely, like, far from perfect. But we try to, but like the, the main goal of, of, like, you know, like making the most money or we're even sometimes making money is not, not the entire. That's not the priority. At all. I think, if if, you know, like, I mean, just sourcing seafood, for example, would be, a great way for us to make a lot more money.

01:04:00:07 - 01:04:39:17
Renee Erickson
It would be to serve an entirely, you know, different agenda of, of, of things in our restaurants. And I think we just have, we want to feel good about what we do, and we want to show up every day and be proud and, and kind of, feel like we're making the right decision. I know we're not always or, you know, and I think that's why we keep changing and evolving based on, you know, new things that come to light or, yeah, everything, like everything's changing in regards to, like, what's what, what you can and can't buy sustainably is something that I think you constantly have to be paying attention to.

01:04:39:17 - 01:05:08:11
Renee Erickson
And I think we struggle with like, anchovies is a great example. Like, you know, largely mostly anchovies aren't aren't sustainable. And I think the ones that are really, you know, it's questionable. And so like, we're, you know, we're and we're buying wine that's shipped across the country and or across the world, and we're doing a lot of things by choice that, you know, like, we could make better decisions, but we're choosing to do different things, you know, that, that we feel good about.

01:05:08:11 - 01:05:26:12
Renee Erickson
And I think that's the case with everyone. Like, we all make we, you know, like, I drive a car that's, you know, uses gas. So one day I won't. But really, I don't want to put it in the landfill. So I'm going to keep running until it dies. But, yeah, I think we just have priorities and we kind of choose what they are and and hope that we're doing the right thing.

01:05:26:14 - 01:05:53:19
Renee Erickson
I think for me on salmon, it was, a combination of, just feeling like utter garbage that I was buying something and serving something to people that I think largely didn't know or didn't want to know that it was the one food source for the orcas to survive in our waters for the resident orcas. And I just was like, why am I doing this?

01:05:53:19 - 01:06:11:13
Renee Erickson
Like there's other fish that I can serve that's delicious. And, and it wasn't with any grand. It wasn't a big like, oh, I'm going to like, make some big statement. I just felt like garbage about it, you know? I just was like, why am I doing this? Like, I don't need to be eating Chinook salmon to live.

01:06:11:15 - 01:06:41:00
Renee Erickson
These guys do. So I just felt like this really obvious choice, to, you know, choose to not buy that and then, yeah. And so I think that kind of exposed me to so many other people, you included, who were, doing things around salmon that felt really important and and honestly, just good to, like, at least do something versus just sort of sitting back and wondering what will happen.

01:06:41:02 - 01:07:07:10
Renee Erickson
You know, I do think, I think in regards to a lot of things, I think, you know, like, kind of like moving to like an extreme, liberal perspective around it will kind of probably end up where we're like, kind of somewhere in the middle. And so I like, I like people, I like hearing from people that are like, really bullish about what's right and wrong around things.

01:07:07:10 - 01:07:27:11
Renee Erickson
And like with science showing that, you know, like, obviously the dams are doing damage, but like fishing is doing damage and you know, like so all these things and so I think if we like can speak to all the issues, well, you know, like and kind of try to address as many of them as possible, you know, like we might end up with orcas in 100 years.

01:07:27:17 - 01:07:37:03
Renee Erickson
We might not. But I don't want to pretend like my choices don't matter, I guess is where I landed. Well, that's a long winded answer to that.

01:07:37:03 - 01:07:56:21
Mark Titus
I don't know, I like it a lot. And in fact, as we wind down here, I. Here's what I'm hearing is that you're doing something and you're you're doing it based on your heart and on, choices that you can make from the position you're in. I again, I think we can have, I'd love to have a roundtable discussion.

01:07:56:21 - 01:08:19:18
Mark Titus
I'll put it. You know, we'll we'll put a, little note on the calendar to come up with a roundtable discussion, talk a little deeper about these things, fishing, and get some unique perspectives from different viewpoints on this. But I think that the fact that you're doing something and the fact that you have the ability to do something again, I think you said it well, it's going to move the needle.

01:08:19:18 - 01:08:47:10
Mark Titus
You're going to end up somewhere in a, in a, in a position of, of positive momentum toward taking action and, and getting folks to lean in and say, well, what's going on here and take a deeper look at things. Again, I think there's more nuance to talk about, but for now, I love it. And, here's what I want to end with is, we're living in dynamic times, to say the least.

01:08:47:12 - 01:09:16:19
Mark Titus
Yeah. There there are things to dread out there. You can get in this lonely place called your head, where it's the, you know, most dangerous house on the block. And I, I have a lot of empathy for young folks right now who are, you know, experiencing anxiety about the climate and, and, and resources that weren't as important as when I was a kid and you were a kid.

01:09:16:20 - 01:09:41:11
Mark Titus
And, all sorts of existential types of dreads. But it's also a beautiful world, and there's beautiful people in it, and there's ways you can take action. We've been talking about that just now. How do you keep your mind and heart trained on what feeds our souls, and what advice do you have for young people who are trying to find their way?

01:09:41:13 - 01:09:47:11
Renee Erickson
Of how do I keep my I mean, I.

01:09:47:13 - 01:10:36:12
Renee Erickson
I think being kind of. Reasonable with expectations around what I can do. I mean, I think if I got if I allowed myself to go to a place of like, I'm not doing enough, I would probably just end up spinning in circles. I think, choosing something has helped me. Like having salmon be something that matters to me, to speak about, I think helped and that came from, I went to James Ford Foundation, do these, chef boot camps, and that was all the one that I went to, was done with Catherine Miller, who actually wrote a book last year about, kind of using your voice in advocacy in, in restaurant

01:10:36:12 - 01:10:59:03
Renee Erickson
and hospitality and, it, I left that boot camp kind of with my head, just completely undone with, like, no, real no direction of, like what? How I was going to, like, use this information that I had learned. And then. But the one thing that I remember Catherine telling me was just like, just choose something, you know?

01:10:59:03 - 01:11:30:01
Renee Erickson
And you don't have to do it forever, but, like, just focus on one thing and, like, pay attention to it. And, I think for me, that and, you know, like, choose something that matters, you know, that, like you feel a response to. And for me, that was salmon and I think I don't I didn't really think about it in that way or like had the emotional response to it until, Tamaqua, the baby orca died and I watched that, you know, the whole world watched this whale move, this dead baby around.

01:11:30:01 - 01:11:53:02
Renee Erickson
And and that was the moment for me where I was just like, what the hell am I doing? Like, this is insane. And so I just was like, okay, well, I'm just going to, you know, make a decision to try to, inform myself and use the restaurant group that I own, as a way to, make decisions around, what we do and how we choose.

01:11:53:02 - 01:12:21:22
Renee Erickson
You know, how our money is spent. And then also my voice in regards to, like, supporting causes that support, trying to save salmon and then, you know, and by that, orcas and and so yeah. So I think for me it was just trying to like be realistic about, what, what I could do. And then, you know, trying to not, get overwhelmed by it.

01:12:21:22 - 01:12:52:08
Renee Erickson
I think that's it's so easy to just be doomsday all the time. You know, and and, you know, and sometimes I am, and that's fine. But sometimes I think largely it's about, supporting people that are doing work, especially scientists, that are, you know, kind of constantly trying to make, the information that I think we already know available for the world to see.

01:12:52:10 - 01:13:18:18
Renee Erickson
Around, you know, data and how how we're impacting the world that we're, you know, trying to save, and, yeah. And then I think, I think feeling good about it, I think, too, I think those are the, you know, like trying to, like, not be overwhelmed and then also be, proud or happy that I'm in the position to be able to make some impact.

01:13:18:18 - 01:13:44:16
Renee Erickson
I think I think, you know, especially in regards to like, social media and, you know, the world at large, it's easy to feel like there's just too many things to try to participate in to make better, you know, like financially or otherwise. And, I think just trying to, like, know that I'm, you know, doing good where I feel like I can have the most impact is sort of where I've landed on my own.

01:13:44:16 - 01:14:01:06
Renee Erickson
Feeling satisfied with that, I think it's, otherwise, I think you just I would just, you know, burnout and and probably not be effective on any front, you know, just like, does. Yeah. Unravel. Essentially. Yeah.

01:14:01:08 - 01:14:22:19
Mark Titus
I, I totally feel. Yeah. And, you know, it's I'm speaking as a person who goes through all this all the time thinking about, you know, burnout. And, I would add, I love everything you said. And I would add to it that, first of all, just to reiterate that your primary suggestion is to do something, to take an action.

01:14:22:19 - 01:14:41:21
Mark Titus
Don't get paralyzed. And the second thing I would add to that is what we're doing right now is reach out to another person. Don't do it. Don't feel like you got to go it alone, right? Yeah. When you find people that love the same things that you do, there is a lot of love and reciprocity, and there's courage and there strength in that.

01:14:41:21 - 01:15:00:06
Mark Titus
And I've certainly found that with you. And, from lots of other folks who are equally passionate as we are about the things that they love. So, it's just, you know, it's there's no reason to get stuck in that that, last house on the block up in your head.

01:15:00:08 - 01:15:00:23
Renee Erickson
Totally.

01:15:00:23 - 01:15:22:13
Mark Titus
So reach out. All right, last fun question is, this is the bonus round. You've made it this far, and everybody, everybody gets the bonus round. It's a little thought exercise. You're you're you've got, part of your life now is in this gadget valley, and we're just going imagine for a moment here, and this is fantastical.

01:15:22:13 - 01:15:41:18
Mark Titus
It's. I knock on wood, it's not going to happen, but, let's just say the waters rose so high that everything was going to get taken away. So you get your loved ones out first. You're your people. Loved ones in your free loved ones. But if there's one physical thing you could take with you before those flood waters come and level everything, what would that one physical thing be?

01:15:41:20 - 01:15:45:21
Renee Erickson

01:15:45:23 - 01:15:53:20
Renee Erickson
One physical? Well, if the flood waters came, what does that mean? Like the orca whales would just, like, get to have more area to live in.

01:15:53:22 - 01:16:01:22
Mark Titus
Let's say in our little world here. Yes. There. They got lots of food and, they've got more. Terra.

01:16:02:00 - 01:16:13:23
Renee Erickson
How would I take. I don't know, Got an interesting question.

01:16:14:01 - 01:16:18:22
Renee Erickson
I don't know, maybe like a fruit tree or something, because I'm not clear.

01:16:19:00 - 01:16:37:01
Mark Titus
Yeah, that's a first on many, many episodes. The fruit tree. That's really good. Mine is. I've got a box full of journals that, you know, goodness knows nobody's going to want to read them. But for some reason, they're important to me from 16 years old on. So that's what I would take. A fruit trees. Awesome. You got some very.

01:16:37:01 - 01:16:40:19
Mark Titus
Rene. You got food, food to.

01:16:40:21 - 01:16:41:04
Renee Erickson
Keep.

01:16:41:04 - 01:16:57:07
Mark Titus
The sustain. All right. So there's that part of it that's a good answer. And then the next part is it's more of a metaphysical thing. If you could only take one trait about Rene that makes you you. What would that trait be that you would take?

01:16:57:09 - 01:17:01:03
Renee Erickson

01:17:01:05 - 01:17:19:17
Renee Erickson
I think I would take, my chairman, my business partner describes this as like. Like I'm, I'm not even confident, but, like, good at making decisions like effectiveness, I guess.

01:17:19:19 - 01:17:43:07
Mark Titus
Yeah, totally rock solid, I agree. Renee Erickson, your friend and you're a friend and an inspiration to many, many people here in the Pacific Northwest. Thanks for joining us here. And say what you love, your beautiful book, Sunlight and Bread Crumbs Making Food with Creativity and Curiosity is available now. How can folks follow you? Where should they check out all the things that you're up to?

01:17:43:09 - 01:18:05:23
Renee Erickson
Yeah. So our, my Instagram is @chefReneeErickson. Sea creatures is www.eatseacreatures.com. That's our website. And you can, get on our mailing list to see what craziness we're up to. If you want books, we sell them there as well. They'll be signed. Otherwise, from Book larder is another great place to get signed.

01:18:05:23 - 01:18:08:22
Renee Erickson
Books. Yeah.

01:18:09:00 - 01:18:19:22
Mark Titus
Get the signed books there. Better. You are awesome. Thank you for doing this, my friend. And, I'm looking forward to more. And so until then, we'll we'll see you down the trail.

01:18:20:00 - 01:18:20:21
Renee Erickson
All right. Take care.

01:18:21:00 - 01:18:21:22
Mark Titus
Okay.

01:18:22:00 - 01:18:23:14
Renee Erickson
Bye.

01:18:23:16 - 01:18:54:22
Music
How do you say what you love?
How do you say what you love?
How do you say what you love?
How do you say what you love?

01:18:55:00 - 01:19:19:00
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening. To save what you love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on whatever platform you're listening from and leaving a comment on Apple Podcasts. It really helps get the word out. Check out photos on our Instagram feed we're at Save what You Love podcast, and you can get links from today's featured guest in the show notes of this episode.

01:19:19:02 - 01:19:47:22
Mark Titus
Join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter at evaswild.org and then clicking on connect in the upper corner. You'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way. That's at Evaswild.com the word save spelled backwards wild.com. This episode was produced by Emilie Firn and edited by Patrick Troll.

01:19:48:00 - 01:19:53:20
Mark Titus
Original music was created by Whiskey Class. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you all down the trail.