Save What You Love with Mark Titus

00:00:00:02 - 00:00:21:12
Mark Titus
Welcome to Say what you love. I'm Mark Titus. Today we get to hang out with Melanie Brown. Melanie is a dear friend of mine from Bristol Bay and is a fifth generation indigenous fisherman from the bay. Melanie also just got the biggest heart I know. She's been working on the campaign to protect Bristol Bay for decades now with many other people.

00:00:21:14 - 00:00:46:03
Mark Titus
We have traveled all over the country together, preaching the gospel of wild salmon and Bristol Bay. And here today she gets to share that very personal and very important message with you. If you enjoy the show, give us a rating on Apple Podcasts. It really makes a big difference. And you can check us out on Instagram at. Save What You Love podcast.

00:00:46:05 - 00:01:04:17
Mark Titus
And if you want anything further, more information or a way to help by using your dollars to protect Bristol Bay, you can go to Ava's Wired.com. That's the word save spelled backwards. While Tor.com. Thanks for listening. So glad you're with us. Enjoy the show.

00:01:04:19 - 00:01:41:00
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love when things are upside down? How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:01:41:02 - 00:01:43:16
Mark Titus
Melanie Brown, welcome.

00:01:43:18 - 00:01:46:10
Melanie Brown
Thank you. Happy to be here.

00:01:46:12 - 00:02:08:10
Mark Titus
I'm so glad you're here. You know, these last ten years or so, I feel like I've seen you more in person than my own family all over the country. We've been busy. What, for our listeners, has kept you moving at the speed you do in your life's work? Why have we been passing each other in the night so much?

00:02:08:12 - 00:02:15:20
Melanie Brown
Well, I guess the. The most pointed answer would be the proposed Pebble Mine.

00:02:15:21 - 00:02:18:06
Mark Titus
Yup.

00:02:18:08 - 00:02:32:02
Mark Titus
So we're going to dive into the proposed Pebble Mine. But can you give us a just a top level view of what that is and what's at stake in Bristol Bay, Alaska?

00:02:32:04 - 00:03:00:15
Melanie Brown
Yeah. Well, I guess the biggest thing that at stake is the last great wild salmon run that is left in the world. And all because of people who are they can't seem to resist the idea of digging a big hole in the ground so that they can get some copper, gold and molybdenum out of it in the order of 11 billion tons.

00:03:00:17 - 00:03:32:04
Melanie Brown
That's the estimated size of of the deposit. And it sits at the headwaters of the two most prolific salmon rivers and Bristol Bay, the the Nushagak and the Quebec River systems. And there are a number of communities along the nuclear gap and associated with Ilium, the lake that drains into the coast. Jack And a lot of people's lives tend to be changed drastically by this project.

00:03:32:05 - 00:03:39:19
Mark Titus
And is this a local or Alaskan company or an American company who's working on this endeavor?

00:03:39:21 - 00:03:52:17
Melanie Brown
No, it's a multinational company, Northern Dynasty Minerals is that they're based in Vancouver and. That's right, isn't it? They're in fact, it is. Yeah.

00:03:52:19 - 00:03:53:05
Mark Titus

00:03:53:11 - 00:04:34:10
Melanie Brown
So the state of Alaska is giving a free pass to a multinational company, and in my opinion, it seems as if they are prioritizing the interests of of this outside interest over those of Alaskans. And they've proven it in very many ways from from the permitting of the project to the recent appeal that they've they filed against the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers denial of that federal permit.

00:04:34:12 - 00:04:58:22
Mark Titus
Well, we're going to we're going to do a deep dive into more of this. But I think it's important just to kind of paint the picture and understand that this is not some kind of homegrown endeavor to help Alaskans. In fact, to my understanding, the state of Alaska, people generally, 62% of Alaskans, don't want this thing to happen.

00:04:58:22 - 00:05:25:23
Mark Titus
And 80% of people that actually live in Bristol Bay and make it their home don't want this thing to happen. So I just wanted to kind of lay that groundwork before I dig into the next part of this, which is your family. You you've got deep roots in Bristol Bay. Can you can you tell us about your family and how it factors in to this place and why it's so special for you?

00:05:26:01 - 00:05:57:14
Melanie Brown
Sure. So I first visited Bristol Bay to visit my great grandparents, and because my parents were there for their fishing season, my great grandparents, Paul and Anna Chakan, they were the first generation of commercial fishermen in our family. But prior to that, they they would have depended utterly on the wild salmon for their existence and survival. But my my great grandfather, he started fishing during the sailboat era.

00:05:57:17 - 00:06:26:23
Melanie Brown
He he asked for a for the use of a company boat at Red Salmon Cannery when the windows were running it and was granted a tender sailboat so that he could start earning some money to to buy staples in the cash economy. And and then my my mother started fishing with him when she was ten years old. And when he had transitioned to becoming a senator.

00:06:27:01 - 00:06:51:21
Melanie Brown
And and then when I was ten years old, I started fishing with my family and my great grandpa was still out there fishing, too, with the permit that he earned through lemon through the limited entry process. And I continue to fish the site that my great grandpa staked out to this day. And now I fish with my my two children on that site.

00:06:51:23 - 00:07:05:04
Melanie Brown
So so we have a number of generations of fishermen in our family. And my my dad became a fisherman when he met my mom to he he was a drift fisherman.

00:07:05:06 - 00:07:29:23
Mark Titus
We'll get into drift and set here, too, in a sec. Talk about the difference between those two. But you mentioned the cash economy and that your grandpop, your great grandpa Paul, he he wasn't to to too far off from it. Not necessarily being a cash economy. And what like how far back does your family ancestry go in the bay?

00:07:30:01 - 00:07:58:06
Melanie Brown
It's hard to say exactly, because my my mom, she you know, she's done a lot of work to try to piece together the history, you know, because so much information and knowledge was lost in the great pandemic that swept through Bristol Bay a century ago. And people had to find ways of filling in knowledge gaps. And fortunately, the salmon were there to support them and provide the sustenance that they needed.

00:07:58:06 - 00:08:22:17
Melanie Brown
But my my great grandparents were left to raise themselves when they were orphaned because of the pandemic. And but when my mom was doing some of her research to learn more about our family, she found that the name Shooken existed in out in the Aleutians. I can't remember which island, she said. She found a census record for fur that included that name.

00:08:22:17 - 00:08:56:02
Melanie Brown
But when I grew up, I was always told that on my mom's side I was Aleut. And it confused me because my great grandparents spoke Yup'ik. But it's I guess that's a testament to to how much people people migrated to follow fish and game. But I do know that my great grandpa was born into a traditional existence. He was born in a Barbara and he he almost died in one during the pandemic.

00:08:56:03 - 00:09:29:08
Melanie Brown
And, and when the pandemic was over, all of those old traditional semi subterranean sod houses where they were abandoned and burned and people walked into a more modern existence, I guess you could say, and wow. And then started recognizing that they, you know, there were certain basic food staples that they they wanted to incorporate into their their food ways.

00:09:29:08 - 00:09:40:18
Melanie Brown
And they needed money for that. So so that's I guess how the I can only surmise, you know, that that's how things evolved.

00:09:40:20 - 00:09:51:14
Mark Titus
So we're we're talking about 1918. The the previous global pandemic that was so devastating was the Spanish flu. Is that right?

00:09:51:16 - 00:09:52:11
Melanie Brown
Yes.

00:09:52:13 - 00:10:24:06
Mark Titus
Okay. So it's about 1918 and before we get into why the food? Because it's so important, can you give us a little bit of a anthropology lyrical sketch on the people of Bristol Bay? I mean, you've mentioned the and the Yup'ik. How does that how does that look in terms of where people moved into and moved and followed the the salmon in the game around like you mentioned.

00:10:24:08 - 00:10:55:17
Melanie Brown
Sure. I'll do my best to, to sort of paint a picture. So one thing that I haven't mentioned is that there would have been migration associated with the Russian-American company as well. You know, the Russians came in to exploit the first furs of Alaska. And so and the first people that they encountered, they were not many people, but the Russians referred to them as aliens.

00:10:55:19 - 00:11:23:22
Melanie Brown
So that was an imposed name. I'm not sure what the origin of that name is, but Oolong is the self given name of the people instead of the ethno name. It's the outer name of the people. And then as you head eastward, there's a language boundary, according to the Alaska Native language map, where you'll see allude to. And so those are synonymous terms.

00:11:23:22 - 00:12:03:10
Melanie Brown
But A is the imposed name. So is the self given name of the people who reside on the Alaska Peninsula and Kodiak Island. And and then when you move further east into the region of Bristol Bay, that's where you encounter Yup'ik people and also is is a culture that exists in Bristol Bay and then that if you go inland upriver that you'll encounter the people and their DNA people are Athabaskan people.

00:12:03:12 - 00:12:20:05
Melanie Brown
So Bristol Bay is a very multicultural place and I really I believe that it drew a lot of cultures in because of the richness associated with the salmon and what the salmon bring to the land.

00:12:20:06 - 00:12:50:19
Mark Titus
Well, one major thing salmon bring to the land, they bring a lot of things, cultural identity, spiritual continuity. But obviously there's food and it's such a central binding element in your life. I know because of our friendship and all of the things that we have participated in together over the years, and you speak of food with such tenderness and reverence at the same time.

00:12:51:01 - 00:13:14:16
Mark Titus
Here's a little quote from something you wrote in an article where you generously gave out the recipe for your Yuma's famed fish soup you wrote The cartilage in the head is easy to chew through and very flavorful. Other bits that aren't edible will stay between your teeth when you bite down and you can sort them out. Make sure that you suck the juice out of the bits before taking them out of your mouth.

00:13:14:18 - 00:13:42:11
Mark Titus
Your hands will get sticky from the richness of the oil. Just accept the fact that your meal will be very tactile and visceral experience and enjoy. So I just love this because it's practical and loving and respectful and you seem to kind of give us a little wink, too. Why are your home foods so central to your life and your love of family and the land you come from?

00:13:42:13 - 00:14:15:04
Melanie Brown
that's a big question. But I feel like in many ways, the way that you frame the question answers it, too. I'm really happy that you recognize those things in me because they are true to me. Food is so foundational. We can't exist without food, and that is why it's so important to me. What I put into my body, what I choose to put in my body, what I choose to support with my dollars to, you know.

00:14:15:06 - 00:14:55:17
Melanie Brown
But but when I when I get to participate in eating and sharing traditional foods or foods that are from the land that I know are from healthy lands, that to me is like the most wonderful way to partake of food with other people and to to just share the goodness of that food. I it's it's just such a simple pleasure that can be so elevating at the same time.

00:14:55:19 - 00:15:28:06
Mark Titus
Well, it's and you know, I did mention that I didn't misspeak That's we're talking about the head of the salmon. I think we're getting a little more aware about eating all the parts of if we're using animals as our protein source, we are getting more aware and better at utilizing the whole fish. And that's probably a little unfamiliar and maybe a little squeamish for people in the lower 48.

00:15:28:08 - 00:16:06:06
Mark Titus
And yet I've I've had it. It's delicious. And it's also so friggin good for you. I mean, like you said, like putting that into your your body is, in my opinion, it's the best protein source you can possibly do and it regenerates itself. That's, you know, can you speak to that absolute fecundity of the region and why that is such a unique thing Now in a world where wild salmon runs have have all but disappeared.

00:16:06:08 - 00:16:34:21
Melanie Brown
I guess a won't be before I do that, I would like to thank you for for putting in a plug for full utilization of the salmon. I think it's really important. I think it's it's a really beautiful way of honoring the fish by fully utilizing it. But also there's just so much flavor that can be brought out of the fish.

00:16:34:21 - 00:17:08:00
Melanie Brown
If you if you save the backbone and you strip it clean with a spoon and use that use that meat to make make things sure it may not be a beautiful filet, but you you have these amazing bits that you can make tacos with or all kinds of things. The sky's the limit and then the backbone. If you boil it down, you can end up with such an amazing bone broth, which I know people are really into these days that you can repurpose into another meal.

00:17:08:00 - 00:17:40:19
Melanie Brown
It's really easy to just freeze in a jar and and use it later and just add so much flavor, richness and health and vitality that that comes from the bones. But mostly I just I feel like it's it's a terrible sin to waste. Waste parts of the fish that can be used and I'm really happy to see that there is sort of a movement toward that in in the fish as food industry.

00:17:40:21 - 00:18:15:12
Melanie Brown
But going back to what you're talking about, that the cycle of how salmon regenerate the land is just it's incredible to to know that when salmon return, not only do they give their lives in their spawning, you know, they die soon after their their bodies fertilize the land and the further upriver they swim, the, the more nutrients they're bringing to to the land.

00:18:15:14 - 00:19:19:05
Melanie Brown
And then in turn those nutrients they, they end up eventually nurturing caribou and moose who browse on the waters edge on the tundra that the that the salmon fertilize. So it's this it's this regenerative cycle that it's if you're dealing with an intact system, an ecosystem that is has not been interrupted this the relationship is boundless. It you know it's something that you know where all these nutrients they they're able to to cycle and continue in a way that is just it's so beautiful And that's why I feel it it is so important to keep this ground intact because it's doing much more than than we know, than we can even recognize by just looking

00:19:19:05 - 00:19:21:07
Melanie Brown
at it.

00:19:21:09 - 00:19:53:15
Mark Titus
And these fish coming back. Can you describe for us what this experience is like? I mean, most of us, we see salmon returning and we see, you know, 10 to 20 in a river or maybe one in a river. I know Bristol Bay is a marvel and it's it's absolute richness of its biomass. Can you describe for us a little bit about what that's like when the salmon come home and the sheer numbers of salmon that return to Bristol Bay?

00:19:53:17 - 00:20:30:20
Melanie Brown
Yeah, it's it's actually kind of fun. It's almost like gut sinking and heart sinking and exhilarating at the same time. I, I when I refer to the gut sinking part of it, I'm referring to being in my skiff and recognizing that my net has been plugged. Just about every mesh has been plugged by salmon, you know, making their their way up upstream to to go back home And it's yeah, it's pretty daunting when when you look at a net like that.

00:20:30:20 - 00:20:33:19
Melanie Brown
But at the same time it's like it's amazing how it powers you up.

00:20:33:19 - 00:20:34:17
Mark Titus
And.

00:20:34:19 - 00:21:12:01
Melanie Brown
It's it's quite a sight to behold and it just seems seems boundless. And listen, when you yeah. You know as soon sometimes you'll, you'll be clearing gear and and you look behind and you're catching just as fast as you're picking. I mean that's how abundant the numbers of the return are. When the, the salmon come back, they come back in such force and it's, it's pretty amazing.

00:21:12:03 - 00:21:19:12
Mark Titus
What kind of numbers are we talking about? Are we talking about in the hundreds of thousands? Are we talking about the what are we looking at?

00:21:19:14 - 00:21:58:04
Melanie Brown
We're talking about tens of millions of salmon returning on the in the past few years. The predictions that come out of YouTube and F and G have been exceeded and the average returns have have been 50 million plus. Wow. Returning. And that's just sockeye salmon alone. Bristol Bay returns all five species of Pacific salmon if you count rainbows, which are also a salmon at that.

00:21:58:05 - 00:22:02:07
Melanie Brown
That's yet another another species.

00:22:02:09 - 00:22:24:06
Mark Titus
So you referred to U Dub and EDF and G, and that's the University of Washington. They have a fisheries research institute there. So the Alaska Fisheries Program, I know they've been there for over 70 years. I think it's the oldest cold water. It's the most extensive data set for cold water fisheries there is. And then 84 years, the Alaska Department of Fish and Game.

00:22:24:06 - 00:22:37:14
Mark Titus
And from what I know those numbers, that those predicting numbers every year seem to correlate pretty closely. And they they they're pretty pretty spot on, aren't they, from year to year?

00:22:37:16 - 00:23:02:21
Melanie Brown
They're yeah, definitely the predictive modeling, you know, because they've collected so much data over time. It is it's amazing what they're able to come up with. But there have been been some years where they were like they were too conservative in their estimates and the numbers far exceeded their predictions, which is not a bad thing.

00:23:03:02 - 00:23:24:09
Mark Titus
That's not a bad thing. But now that that brings us right back to you in your boat watching this onslaught. Come on. And you've you started doing this when you were ten years old, when it was the earliest allowable time. And I know that you have got your kids involved when they were super young. This is really hard work.

00:23:24:10 - 00:23:45:04
Mark Titus
I don't think most of us know what it's like set netting. So can you describe for us what set netting is like? What why is that different from drift fishing and what's the work like every day when you're doing this? And then why do you do it if it's such hard work?

00:23:45:06 - 00:24:23:02
Melanie Brown
So set netting is we use gillnet gear on. That is the only gear type that's allowed in Bristol Bay for fishing for salmon and Setnetters are entitled through their permit that's issued through the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission in Alaska. Set net permit is entitled to fish 50 fathoms of gear. A fathom is six feet, so that's 300 feet of gear and the gear is set perpendicular to the shoreline.

00:24:23:04 - 00:24:53:09
Melanie Brown
And what we do is we we have an anchor set on the inside. It's up there. I think we have a screw anchor or it might be a actually, it's a duckbill anchor. It's a it's a buried Earth anchor with them with a cable and eyes that we we tie our running line to or our anchor line. And and then we string it out and tie it to our outside anchor, which is a screw anchor.

00:24:53:09 - 00:25:36:15
Melanie Brown
And and then the outside is floated by a big barrel. It has to be this sort of like a fire engine red and that. And then we paint our set net number on there. And so the line is out and ready whenever an opening is called by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. And and then we at the instant that the opening begins, we we start, you know, we have our end tied off and our corks and mesh can't hit the water until the opening is official and and then we just start pulling on the line toward the inside, toward the high side of the beach.

00:25:36:17 - 00:26:06:11
Melanie Brown
And and then the net steps itself, you know, it just sort of pulls out of the trailing edge of the skiff and we tie it off at different intervals and hope that we start seeing strikes as soon as it hits the water. It's really exciting to see see the the strikers hit the gear because they hit with such force.

00:26:06:13 - 00:26:36:15
Melanie Brown
But drift fishermen, they they're entitled to 150 fathoms of gear with their permit. But if they have a second permit holder on board, then they can add another 50 fathoms of gear. It's actually it's sort of a counterintuitive kind of concept. It seems as if, you know, stacking permits maybe is is not a conservation measure, but it actually takes gear out of the water.

00:26:36:18 - 00:27:10:14
Melanie Brown
You know, 100 fathoms of gear taken out of the water. But a lot of people do it in Bristol Bay just so that they can it's a way of sort of consolidating the the cost of having another boat because because having a boat, it's a really expensive it's capital expenditure. So so when people team up on a boat, it's you know, it's a way of just making it easier financially to get get started in Bristol Bay.

00:27:10:16 - 00:27:30:18
Mark Titus
So you're just a you're doing a great job of I'm seeing the whole thing as you're describing it. But so basically a set net is a fixed net on the beach, hoping to intercept salmon. That intercept salmon that come by and then a drift that actually drifts and floats behind the boat with the tide, correct?

00:27:30:20 - 00:28:00:12
Melanie Brown
Yes. That the you know, when a drift fisherman is getting ready to set up their gear, they have to anticipate which direction the salmon are coming from. And also consider the wind and the tide and the direction that they're they're pushing in. And generally at the top of an opener, you know, that the boat always the tide is coming in, that that's how our openings happen in Bristol Bay.

00:28:00:17 - 00:28:21:00
Melanie Brown
They they're timed with the incoming tide and ADF and usually gives the Setnetters an hour head start because it takes longer for the water to hit our our part of the beach, you know, to get high enough to to hit the beach where our gear is, put it all. And these are these.

00:28:21:00 - 00:28:27:02
Mark Titus
Are big tides. Sorry to interrupt, but these are big tides, right? I mean, we're talking and it's not just a couple feet. This is moving.

00:28:27:07 - 00:28:43:18
Melanie Brown
We have a really huge tidal swing in Bristol Bay. We have a minus tides as big as seven feet. And and then they can swing on up to, say, 25 feet. It's not uncommon for us to have a 25 foot foot tide.

00:28:43:23 - 00:28:44:15
Mark Titus
Wow.

00:28:44:17 - 00:29:09:01
Melanie Brown
Yeah. So it's it can the force of the water, it's it's really that's that's pretty daunting to, you know, the force of the tide. It's you have to really respect it and make sure that you're you're always paying attention to what the tide could possibly do to you and your operation. Yeah.

00:29:09:01 - 00:29:26:07
Mark Titus
So so the tide. The tide comes in and the fish presumably are coming in with the tide and they hit your net and they, you, you see where they're hit hitting your net by the splashes that are made and, and then the tide goes back out like what is the work look like at that point then.

00:29:26:08 - 00:30:03:06
Melanie Brown
So usually what we we do is, you know as the tide as the fish come in with the tide, we we stay stand we clear, clear our gear after after we set it. And if it looks like there's a good flurry that that's happening, we'll we'll stay. You know, sometimes the you know, there will just just be a flurry at the top of the tide with the incoming tide, because the fish usually like to pool outside the district and then have a big push in with the tide because they know that will help help them conserve their energy.

00:30:03:07 - 00:30:34:20
Melanie Brown
They're they're taking advantage of the force of the tide to get upriver and so so usually at the top of the tide, unless there are just no fish around. Well, we'll see. See a good flurry and clear our gear and a couple of times just to see if we're continuing to catch. And oftentimes when the fish aren't really running hard, there will be a a lull, you know, after that initial flurry.

00:30:34:21 - 00:31:10:18
Melanie Brown
So we take that time to go home and rest before we come back. After that, the high tide, we usually go back about an hour after the high tide and start picking again. And then we we stay until till the water is out. If we're if we don't have a closure, you know, sometimes we'll just get one one tide openings and we have to pull our gear in at the end of, say, an eight hour period and wait until another opening is called.

00:31:10:20 - 00:31:38:23
Melanie Brown
But once ADF Angie has a sense that we're on track here, you know, we're hitting our our targets as the season goes along that our escapement goals then so escapement is that the fish that make it up past the counting tower to ensure that enough salmon have escaped for sustainability, right? So that there are enough that have the target.

00:31:38:23 - 00:31:49:13
Melanie Brown
Number four for Naknek, the ideal goal is a million. Usually that's that's our target escapement for our river system.

00:31:49:15 - 00:31:59:22
Mark Titus
So that's that's the number necessary to be counted of fish going upriver before folks actually are harvesting them.

00:32:00:00 - 00:32:27:19
Melanie Brown
Usually we don't sit and wait until the entire escapement goal has been met. And there are there are sort of, I guess, landmarks along the way that help ATF. And that's my understanding is that, you know, it helps them determine whether or not we're on track and if it looks like we're slow to meet the the goals that are set during the course of the season, then they have us pull our gear and then we can't fish.

00:32:27:20 - 00:32:43:13
Melanie Brown
And we have to wait until there's you know, that more more fish have just have gone up without being caught. So, yeah. Does that answer your question?

00:32:43:15 - 00:33:14:17
Mark Titus
Sure does. And so so you're you're out there and this is obviously very exposed work. You're in the elements. It's muddy. It can be cold, it can be hot, but you're out there with your kids. You've got two kids, Mariana and Oliver. What does it mean to you to to do this hard work with your family and understanding how far back generationally this goes?

00:33:14:17 - 00:33:16:23
Mark Titus
How does that feel to you?

00:33:17:01 - 00:33:47:00
Melanie Brown
It feels pretty good. I really. I'm so proud that. That they're in the skiff with me now. Oliver, he has the last season that we fished, he had a really it was kind of a breakthrough year for him. He's 13 now, and and I think he's really going to be ready to contribute a lot of hard work to to the operation of the next season that we fish He's you know, he's he's getting stronger now.

00:33:47:02 - 00:34:16:06
Melanie Brown
I think I I've incorporated my kids in maybe a little more slowly than I came in. But when I when I started fishing, we were still just fishing from the beach. My mom felt uneasy about my great grandpa being out on the water anymore because his sight was getting so weak. And and he was getting older. And so we ended up, you know, just doing everything from the beach and, you know, delivering from the shore.

00:34:16:08 - 00:34:38:15
Melanie Brown
But by the time I was about 14 or so, we recognized that it would be a lot more efficient to start working from a skiff again. And so I threw myself into that. And I, I don't think I would have been ready really to be in the skiff is a great tool. It makes everything a lot more efficient, but it really intensifies things, too.

00:34:38:17 - 00:34:56:16
Melanie Brown
And and I'm glad that I was able to start from the beach and then recognize the benefit of fishing from the skiff. But I wouldn't have been ready to be out on the water all the time, you know, like all the time that we were fishing at age ten. So, yeah, I just kind of brought my kids in slowly.

00:34:56:18 - 00:35:17:10
Melanie Brown
And my daughter is she's such a huge asset in our operation now and she comes out every tide. And Oliver, I was. I was just letting him sleep on the night tides the last season that we fished because I just felt like he needs to sleep and grow and. And he can come out with us during the day.

00:35:17:12 - 00:35:26:06
Melanie Brown
But I think that this next season he'll be he'll be coming out with us every tide, whether they're the tides are in the nighttime or not.

00:35:26:08 - 00:35:58:13
Mark Titus
So cool doing this together as a family. Do you think these kids have a sense at this point of I don't know the bigger picture about this resource, it's beyond just the work, but that this is it is sacred, it's feeding people and it's a continuation of of things for multiple generations. And do the kids have that kind of sense at this point that that kind of continuity.

00:35:58:15 - 00:36:39:19
Melanie Brown
I, I think that they must I it's not something that I want to be pounding into their heads, you know, like I want them to have their own develop their own ideas around things. But I feel like I'm I'm I'm doing my best to put good thoughts in front of them that they can take or leave. And I'd like to think that I'm I'm setting an example in some ways, but I think just the fact that they they get to be in contact with the salmon the way that they they do that alone is is a really big teacher.

00:36:39:21 - 00:36:54:01
Melanie Brown
I know you know, like I've learned so many life lessons from you, you know, every season that I've I've fished there. Yeah. So hopefully there they are, too.

00:36:54:03 - 00:37:28:03
Mark Titus
We've been talking frequently on on this show about, well, with folks in the sport fishing community, really in any kind of topic, we're talking about how important connection is. And it seems like this is the same thing here, that if if these kids of yours are touching these fish, if they're handling the fish, if they're seeing the tide come in and out, they're eating the fish, taking it in and then, you know, giving it to other people.

00:37:28:03 - 00:37:40:09
Mark Titus
Essentially it seems like they will be more suited to be protectors and warriors for this place, for the next generation. Would would you agree with that?

00:37:40:11 - 00:38:20:06
Melanie Brown
I yeah, I would. But at the same time, I guess, you know, just looking back on my experience, I think in many ways, you know, I, I could see the wonder of it all. But at the same, in many ways, I was also taking it for granted. And it and it took the threat of the proposed Pebble Mine for me to really start creating more clear focus around how important this this run is and and having connection with salmon, being in relation with salmon and all that.

00:38:20:06 - 00:38:56:03
Melanie Brown
They connect to that. Yeah, sometimes they're just there are moments that create clarity for you and but I think that in order for those moments to really mean something, that that clarity has to come through you and your your own way. And that's why I'm not trying to just bang my kids over the head with my beliefs. I think it'll mean a lot more to them if it comes to them when they're ready.

00:38:56:05 - 00:39:02:17
Melanie Brown
You know, and I I'd like to think so in a small way. It's already there.

00:39:02:19 - 00:39:36:17
Mark Titus
I don't think it's possible for me anyway. And from my experience, my little brain and experience of being in the bay over the years, it's really difficult to not be profoundly affected by the fish and the relationship and the land and the water. But it's really great to hear that, you know, you're hands off or you're at least letting your kids experience it and find it on their own.

00:39:36:19 - 00:40:06:03
Mark Titus
But here we are. It's 2021. We're still talking about Bristol Bay and the proposed Pebble Mine. So, so many folks listening would say, how is that possible? Why are we still talking about this? Can you obviously the the fight in Bristol Bay against the proposed Pebble mine has been the topic of both of my documentaries the the breach in the wild.

00:40:06:05 - 00:40:22:01
Mark Titus
Can you give us an up to date little check in on where we are with this issue. Why are we still fighting for this and how is this still going on? And where are we right now in this moment?

00:40:22:03 - 00:40:47:09
Melanie Brown
Okay, so yet Northern Dynasty Minerals or the Pebble Limited partnership, they they have been very tenacious about this. And the thing that's really crazy is that Northern Dynasty Minerals is just a junior company and they do not have a development partner at this point in time. All of the development partners have you know, there have been many and they've all come and gone.

00:40:47:11 - 00:41:16:08
Melanie Brown
And then the last potential partner, they just they paid for an option while they investigated and decided and in the end they opted out. So that, you know, it really begs the question, why is Northern Dynasty Minerals moving forward on this when they don't even have a development partner to build this mine with? But I guess the idea is that if they do get permitted, then it will attract a developer.

00:41:16:10 - 00:41:50:13
Melanie Brown
But they've done all kinds of things. You know, first of withholding a mine plan, you know, because they were waiting for favorable, a more favorable administration. So knowing that if they initiated their permitting process during a favorable administration, things would move along for them more quickly. And they did during the Trump administration that things clipped along really fast and comment periods for Shorten greatly.

00:41:50:15 - 00:42:44:08
Melanie Brown
You know, normally during the NEPA process, you know, like scoping the scoping process alone or alone and like that, the comment periods associated with the on the preliminary lists, they're usually a minimum of 270 days. And the comment period associated with with the Pebble NEPA process were only 90 days. So and then also, you know, one of the ways that they made their their permit more appealing or more environmentally friendly was to submit a mine plan that was only 1/10 of the actual size of the deposit and, you know, arguing that, well, there will be no environmental harm with this size of plan.

00:42:44:10 - 00:43:08:08
Melanie Brown
But we all know that, you know, of course, they're not going to stop at 1/10 of the deposit. It you know, once they've mined that to its full extent, then they are going to apply for a you know, to to keep going. It's been really frustrating to to try to make these points and have them fall on deaf ears.

00:43:08:10 - 00:43:30:07
Melanie Brown
But in November, we got a really big surprise with the US Army Corps of Engineers denying the permit, and it gave us some hope. But at the same time, we you know, those of us who've been working on this for a long time, we're just anticipating what, you know, what's next. They're probably going to appeal. They have this swung to appeal.

00:43:30:07 - 00:44:14:18
Melanie Brown
And at the very end of the time that they had, they did. So there's right now that there's an appeals process going on. And even the state of Alaska decided to submit an appeal, even though they don't have any grounds to appeal on. But it it was just a sign of what we already knew, that the state of Alaska has has done a lot to work in partnership with Pebble Limited partnership and to to make it easier for for their permits to go through.

00:44:14:18 - 00:44:29:07
Melanie Brown
And in some cases, like if you really dig into the history, you'll see that the Department of Natural Resources has done all kinds of things to make it easier for for this project and projects like it to move forward.

00:44:29:09 - 00:44:51:06
Mark Titus
Yeah. So let's pause here for a second because this is perplexing. I get this question almost every time we had a screening of The Wild, Why would the state of Alaska be complicit in trying to ease the process of a mine going into Bristol Bay when 80% of the Bristol Bay residents don't want this mine? They're 62% of Alaskans don't want it there.

00:44:51:08 - 00:45:19:04
Mark Titus
And it's very apparent that this would be a short term financial hit. Are they betting on the financial windfall from this in immediate versus what is at stake there and the risk associated with putting a giant open pit, low grade sulfur copper mine in the headwaters of the last intact, fully, you know, regenerative salmon system on earth. What is their thinking about that?

00:45:19:06 - 00:45:49:03
Melanie Brown
Well, my fear and that of many others is that, you know, if you really look at kind of even a bigger picture, Pebble isn't the only claim of concern in Bristol Bay. A lot of people describe it as it's the donut hole inside of a big donut of a mining district. So, you know, Alaska has always been an extractive state, starting with the fur trade.

00:45:49:05 - 00:46:22:20
Melanie Brown
You know, you know, before the US purchased Alaska from Russia and and then later became a state you know, there all these waves of extraction that have taken place. And and I think a lot of people just sort of have that mindset. Well the way that that we are going to have a robust economy is is by just bringing in these these boom bust waves of development.

00:46:22:22 - 00:47:17:20
Melanie Brown
But not only is there so if pebble were to be developed, it would set precedent and create infrastructure for other projects like it to be built. But not only is there that that concern in Bristol Bay, there are minerals all up and down the the west coast of Alaska and even in the Pebble tapes that were brought to light this past fall, there was talk of potential cost sharing with transportation corridor and a power corridor that, you know, that that would power pebble and a project up in off of the Kuskokwim River upstream from most of the communities in the Yukon Kuskokwim called the Donlin Gold project.

00:47:17:22 - 00:47:48:09
Melanie Brown
And there was talk of of connectivity between those and, you know, and then ADA my goodness, I, I can't remember the words of the acronym ADA is this agency in Alaska that is, is intended to provide loans for four projects. And they've they have approved monies that would be applied to to a roadway, the road to Ambler.

00:47:48:09 - 00:48:19:18
Melanie Brown
So it's like, you know, if you piece all of these things together, there's the fear that there's going to just be a mining district that will go from Bristol Bay all the way up to know northern Alaska. And in my mind, the devastation associated with that will pretty much wipe out all the indigenous communities all up and down the west coast of the western edge of Alaska.

00:48:19:20 - 00:48:26:14
Melanie Brown
It's some it's a fearsome thought, but that's it's a mindset that we're up against.

00:48:26:14 - 00:48:55:23
Mark Titus
And and so we're talking about not just not just and this is a big just the inevitable devastation of the wild salmon runs that would be in proximity of this mining giant, vast mining district. Should the genie get let out of the bottle here with Pebble. But you're also talking about a sovereign, the sovereignty of people that have lived here for thousands of years.

00:48:56:01 - 00:49:23:15
Mark Titus
I don't think that's really apparent in the conversation that most people are mounting. Certainly, you know, the mine proponents are not at all taking that into consideration. And I can't think of anybody more appropriate to talk about it than you especially, you know, with the conversation we're having today about how far back your family and your heritage comes from this place.

00:49:23:17 - 00:49:42:17
Mark Titus
So to to kind of wrap up where we are currently with Pebble, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers denied Pebble a dredge infill permit back in November. Pebble has appealed that decision. And where do we go from here?

00:49:42:19 - 00:50:24:19
Melanie Brown
So what? We're seeking permanent protections for Bristol Bay and but the initial path pathway toward that, we feel it is a return to a tactic or a strategy that we pursued prior to the Trump administration. And we almost got there with the the Bristol Bay watershed assessment, the Bristol Bay watershed assessment was this comprehensive analysis of of the area associated with the pebble deposit and the people of that area.

00:50:24:21 - 00:50:56:11
Melanie Brown
And the reason it was initiated was because there was a request by six tribes to for EPA to use their veto power under the Clean Water Act, Section four four of the Clean Water Act. There is a subsection C that prohibits dredge and fill material from being dumped in the waters of the United States and in this case, the dredge and fill material would would apply to the tailings, the mine tailings.

00:50:56:13 - 00:51:36:05
Melanie Brown
So the waters would be that the headwaters of the Puy Jack and nushagak rivers and of you know we felt like that that would be a really good way to to keep the mine from moving forward and that the EPA made it evident that they were about to to use that veto power when they were approaching the end of the Bristol Bay watershed assessment by releasing their proposed determination and having a final comment period associated with that.

00:51:36:05 - 00:52:08:14
Melanie Brown
And there were not many people who commented against that proposed determination. It was amazing the numbers of people who turned out and it it felt like we'd already won. You know, when when the the comment period happened in the last hearing associated with the Bristol Bay watershed assessment occurred. But not long after that, there was a lawsuit that halted that process and just embroiled all that good work into just the abyss.

00:52:08:15 - 00:52:53:13
Melanie Brown
It just kind of pushed it away. But we're hoping that the EPA will return to the idea of that possibility and and actually use their authority under the Clean Water Act to to prohibit mine tailings from being housed at the headwaters of the in this case, because we're looking at the smaller mine plan that was put forward, it would just be at the headwaters of the or it would be, you know, a prohibition of our earthen tailings dam being built on the north fork of the river, which drains into the new GAC.

00:52:53:15 - 00:53:00:08
Mark Titus
Which is one of the two main arteries that are drainages in Bristol Bay.

00:53:00:14 - 00:53:01:22
Melanie Brown
Yes.

00:53:02:00 - 00:53:46:03
Mark Titus
Okay. So point one is from here is we are urging our lawmakers to let the EPA know that they should exercise the power afforded them under the 404c Clean Water Act and veto pebble's current proposal. And it, if I understand correctly, the second thing and really the the the home run in this is permanent protection. Now I understand further that the current idea behind a permanent protection plan would be something called the Jay and Bella Hammond National Fisheries Area.

00:53:46:05 - 00:54:00:20
Mark Titus
So that seems particularly appropriate and it seems particularly germane to our conversation today. Who were those folks to your family personally, and what would an act of protection in their name look like?

00:54:00:22 - 00:54:39:08
Melanie Brown
Jay and Bella Hammond They were really amazing people to me. They represent like the quintessential Alaska couple. So Jay Hammond was our governor for for two terms. And I, I had the pleasure of knowing him because Jay and Bella raised their their two girls in Naknek and their setting at site is just upstream from mine. So I would see them on the beach, I'd see them around town sometimes we'd see them in Anchorage.

00:54:39:10 - 00:55:13:08
Melanie Brown
Bella, Bella It is from the the Nushagak. She was raised in Dillingham and her, her and Jay met when she was a nurse and in Dillingham, I think at the Mackinac Hospital. And I think Jay was up there guiding. But that's how they met. And then they made a life together in Bristol Bay. And Jay started getting involved in politics when he he decided to run for office.

00:55:13:10 - 00:55:41:10
Melanie Brown
So he was part of the legislature for a while, and then he eventually became governor and he was he had this remarkable way of reaching across party lines to do good for the people that he was there to serve. And unfortunately, I think a lot of a lot of our lawmakers don't think of their positions as service. They think of how they can serve themselves.

00:55:41:12 - 00:56:36:09
Melanie Brown
But I don't think anybody could ever accuse him of doing that. He he did some really great things around, you know, when when Alaska became an oil state because the Trans-Alaska Pipeline was built, you know, there was the Settlement Act and and then the pipeline was built and then the oil started flowing. And he had a lot of foresight when it came to trying to, you know, I think he had reservations about Alaska being that kind of extractive state because he you know, he was looking to the model that was set in Venezuela and he actually had had quite a bit of foresight in creating the permanent fund dividend so that we could have have

00:56:36:09 - 00:57:16:15
Melanie Brown
that Alaskans could have that for a rainy day and also pay out dividends to Alaska residents. So it was it was pretty visionary, you know, that he even came with that. And but when it came to the proposed Pebble Mine that reared its head not long before the end of Jay's life, he had a lot to say about it, including I, I can't imagine a worse place for a mine except for my my kitchen, you know, which is a wonderful, you know, quippy way to point back to food.

00:57:16:17 - 00:57:17:18
Mark Titus
You know, kind of the.

00:57:17:18 - 00:57:51:16
Melanie Brown
Fundamentals of food. Yeah. I just I hope that if if his family listens to what I had to say about him, that they don't feel that I misspoke and that I'm honoring his memory. He was a wonderful man. And I think that having something named for him and and Bella, who was also a fierce even after Jay was gone, you know, she got out and she spoke up about Pebble and provided leadership to us.

00:57:51:17 - 00:58:13:04
Melanie Brown
And it's really sad that she departed this world during the time of COVID, because it's been really hard for us to honor and memorialize her in this time. But I think it would be so fitting to name a reserves for them.

00:58:13:06 - 00:58:26:13
Mark Titus
Do we know what the mechanics of that would be at this point? Like, how would that be shaped? Is it an act of Congress? And what what would what would the protections look like?

00:58:26:15 - 00:59:02:06
Melanie Brown
I really wish I could speak to this more fully, but it's not within my purview of work as an organizer. And it's it's something that I think people are laying the ground work for quietly and I'm not really privy to to the conversations. But I know that, you know, if people want to dig into it a little bit more, I would recommend visiting the United Tribes of Bristol Bay website or their social media channels, because they've issued a statement around where they're hoping things will go.

00:59:02:06 - 00:59:13:15
Melanie Brown
And I think that would help help give people a good idea about about that. And yeah, I apologize for not being able to dive in deeper around that.

00:59:13:17 - 00:59:41:02
Mark Titus
I know it's a work in progress and I think our listeners are keen to know what's going on in the minute as quickly as we can, but that's good advice. Stay tuned at Ava's Wild dot com or at YouTube dawg or Salmon State or Stop Pebble Mine now or even save Bristol Bay to keep up to date on what's going on there.

00:59:41:04 - 01:00:08:08
Mark Titus
So you mentioned Bella. Bella had a wonderful small luminary part in the end of the Wild. Our documentary. And she talks about you've got to speak up and you got to speak up often to make your voice heard. And she had such a light in her eyes and such a conviction. And she was such a it was such an honor to just get to meet her, much less interview her.

01:00:08:10 - 01:00:33:08
Mark Titus
And I just admired that that vigor so much in her. I know you have some of the same exact qualities you you represent that just unending stamina to keep fighting for what you love, like Bella, what keeps your light shining to get up and, do the work every single day. You've been at it for a long time, my friend.

01:00:33:10 - 01:01:45:16
Melanie Brown
It's a big question. I feel like, you know, it's tied to like, bigger sort of existential thinking. In this work. I've continued to grow concern around if the salmon go what's left and, you know, like how what is the tipping point of being on a livable planet? And it but at the same time, I have to recognize my my own health and mental well-being and just try to balance out the joy and the fear associated with, you know, with thinking about or the burden of thinking about like how much longer can we can we sustain the the waves that we've been living that point toward destruction and how how are we going to reshape our

01:01:45:16 - 01:02:30:14
Melanie Brown
thinking and our living to turn that around? And I've I've been in network with some really great people who are trying to find solutions to better living. And and I feel very fortunate about that. And I think it's the people that I've I've been working with during this time that I've been focused on this issue, that that's part of what keeps me going, because I know they're working hard in the same way that I am, and I want to keep working hard for them and I want to keep working hard for my but also recognizing that I have to focus on the joy and the beauty of of the natural world.

01:02:30:16 - 01:02:57:11
Melanie Brown
Because it just I feel like brings me clarity in my purpose. And music helps too. I've been playing, I've been trying, I've been playing, and it fills my heart. Little by little, I like to think that I'm becoming a better musician. I play music with my boyfriend. We have a project called Sunny Porch Collaborative, but I play music on my own too.

01:02:57:13 - 01:03:18:17
Melanie Brown
When I'm by myself. I started, I started playing. I I've always loved to sing, but I picked up a guitar when I couldn't go fishing one year because I had to have surgery. I had a cyst that had to be removed, you know, ovarian cysts. And and it was brought to light just as I was getting ready to go out to Bristol Bay.

01:03:18:17 - 01:03:40:05
Melanie Brown
And so I had to have surgery and can't lift anything after having surgery. And but I could pick up a guitar and started strumming some simple chords and so that I could accompany myself in my singing. And and then it was a you know, it was a really good way for me to have something for myself when my kids were small, too.

01:03:40:05 - 01:04:00:13
Melanie Brown
Because small children are pretty consuming of your energy. And so so I would just pick up my guitar and go through my rotation of the few songs that I knew. And little by little, that kind of grew. And that's been a huge solace for me, being able to go to music when I need to.

01:04:00:15 - 01:04:05:12
Mark Titus
I can't think of a more perfect time for you to maybe play something for us.

01:04:05:14 - 01:04:17:08
Melanie Brown
Or play something. I, I, I don't have my guitar with me back here where I'm recording, but.

01:04:17:10 - 01:04:19:11
Mark Titus
But maybe you could sing.

01:04:19:13 - 01:04:51:02
Melanie Brown
Yeah, I could sing. There's a song that I like to sing that's a cappella. It's a song that was written by a woman named Reese Unger of the Mammals. And be sure to check out their music if you have a chance of listeners. They're doing really good things. They're they're they're really trying to make the world a better place in their own way.

01:04:51:03 - 01:05:25:02
Melanie Brown
And they had Pete Seeger as a teacher and they performed with with Pete Seeger at festivals and the Ruth UNGAR wrote a song in honor of the The Water Protectors at Standing Rock, and it's called My Baby Drink Water. And I haven't sung it in a while. So hopefully, hopefully I'll make it through. I just need to clear my throat.

01:05:25:04 - 01:05:30:05
Mark Titus
Sure, sure. Thank you. This is a gift.

01:05:30:07 - 01:05:35:11
Melanie Brown
Okay.

01:05:35:13 - 01:06:24:11
Melanie Brown
My baby drinks water. My baby drinks. Tea. My baby Eat salmon from the Bristol Bay stream. My baby drinks milk. Mother Nature gave me. So please spare the water for my little one. And me now. Money buys houses and clothing and more. And money buys food at the big grocery store. And money buys trinkets and money buys toys.

01:06:24:13 - 01:07:07:22
Melanie Brown
But it won't buy the Earth back for our little girls and boys. Do you measure your wealth by the size of your purse? What size is your coffin? What size is your purse? What size is your heart? If you put money first high over the children and their hunger and thirst. My baby drinks. Water. My baby drinks tea.

01:07:08:00 - 01:07:33:15
Melanie Brown
My baby eats salmon from the Bristol Bay streams. My baby drink, smoke. Mother Nature gave me. So please spare the water for my little ones. And me too.

01:07:33:17 - 01:07:35:09
Mark Titus
now, Thank you.

01:07:35:11 - 01:07:36:18
Melanie Brown
I started a little high.

01:07:36:18 - 01:08:04:06
Mark Titus
So time you. I think that's the best version I've ever heard you sing of that song. I think is. And I'm sure I'm serious. And there's a treat for you all out there. Proof. I mean, I get a little verklempt here. It's so beautiful. And honestly, we've got a little speed round. We give everybody at the end of each commerce.

01:08:04:08 - 01:08:30:18
Mark Titus
So I'm not going to be any different today. But boy, it's it's tough to follow that. Thank you so much. What a wonderful, vulnerable and beautiful gift for all of us to share. So here's the last little bit for the Say what You Love podcast show here. You got to use your imagination, but let's just say your house were on fire and let's hope that never happens.

01:08:30:20 - 01:08:48:17
Mark Titus
So, you know, if if that if that were the case. So you, of course, would get your loved ones and your beloved pets and animals out of the house. Of course, first. But if that were happening, what would be the one physical thing you would take with you?

01:08:48:19 - 01:08:52:13
Melanie Brown
My Martin Guitar.

01:08:52:15 - 01:09:16:12
Mark Titus
That seems pretty self-evident. Nice. Nice. Nice call. All right, so let's now just let's get a little deeper here, a little more esoteric, and let's call it your spiritual house. The things that are that make. Melanie. Melanie, what are the two most important things about your life that you take with.

01:09:16:14 - 01:09:27:03
Melanie Brown
My food spirit and imagination around food? Does that count as one or two?

01:09:27:03 - 01:09:33:13
Mark Titus
I call that one only because I want to hear you talk more. So.

01:09:33:15 - 01:10:17:16
Melanie Brown
Okay. So. So that and my my music, spirit and all that's associated, all of the spark that's associated with that. Beautiful. I. I don't think I told you. I've finally written some songs for the first time. Mac Song. Yeah. Marcus and I have written a couple of songs together, and we submitted one to an Echo acoustic music festival called Echo Sono and we submitted to the two that we have to the Alaska Folk Fest, which is going to happen virtually this year.

01:10:17:18 - 01:10:22:06
Mark Titus
So typically in Juneau it is. Yeah, I've been to that. It's wonderful.

01:10:22:07 - 01:10:26:03
Melanie Brown
It's a really wonderful festival that.

01:10:26:03 - 01:10:28:01
Mark Titus
Congratulations. That's exciting. I can't.

01:10:28:01 - 01:10:30:10
Melanie Brown
Wait. Thank you. Thanks.

01:10:30:12 - 01:10:42:19
Mark Titus
Well, so too, to finish up our little hypothetical fire situation. So anything you'd leave in the house? Burn. Let it go.

01:10:42:21 - 01:11:07:14
Melanie Brown
All the too much stuff that I have a I'm not the best spring cleaner. And so things sort of accumulate. I'm not a hoarder. It's not like that. It's just that, you know, when you live someplace for a while, you end up, you know, hanging on to too much stuff sometimes. And I. I think I'd let that burn.

01:11:07:16 - 01:11:32:10
Mark Titus
Well, the as the song so eloquently says, you know you can't take it with you. So. All right, Melanie Brown, I'm so grateful for your time, for your friendship, for your incredible hard work. That is an inspiration to me. How can people get involved with your work? How can the people stay connected with you and the super critical work that's going on to protect Bristol Bay right now?

01:11:32:12 - 01:11:57:20
Melanie Brown
I recommend that people start by visiting the Stop Pebble Mine Now dot org website because that's where you can get a breakdown about the call to protect Bristol Bay. You can learn more about Flora Forsey and you can take action there as well. If you're a small business or an organization, you can add your name to the list of supporters.

01:11:57:22 - 01:12:31:15
Melanie Brown
I mentioned United Tribes of Bristol Bay before. Please visit them there. Ultimately, they're the lead on on this fight, and people should always be looking to them because they're the first people of Bristol Bay. They represent the first people of Bristol Bay. I myself work for Salmon State. Salmon State dot org is our our website if you want to visit the salmon centered work that we're focused on in the various campaigns and learn more about those.

01:12:31:16 - 01:12:58:21
Melanie Brown
My social media channel is fish wine. See if you want to like visit my insta feed. I don't, I don't post a whole lot in there, but when there there are updates and stuff I'll share there. And yeah, there's, there's just, there's a lot of great stuff going on, I think a lot of synergy that's happening across sector, you know, different sectors.

01:12:58:23 - 01:13:12:23
Melanie Brown
There's exciting stuff happening around food. Slow Food USA is about to host a slow fish gathering that's happening and Mark's film will be screened there.

01:13:13:01 - 01:13:39:10
Mark Titus
That's right. We're going to be together again on the 20th. That's a nice place for screening of the Wild. And Melanie and I will be on the panel together after that. And you can you can get information about that, actually. And all of the links that Melanie's describing at Ava's Wired.com forward slash action, or just go to Ava's welcome and click on the action tab.

01:13:39:12 - 01:13:59:01
Mark Titus
And if you want to get on our newsletter list, just click on Connect and we'll get you the info on how to see the film and how to connect deeper with all of these issues. Melanie, thank you so much for joining us today. I can't wait to see you up in Bristol Bay. And until then, be safe out there.

01:13:59:03 - 01:14:02:23
Melanie Brown
Thank you. This is fun. Thanks so much for having me.

01:14:03:01 - 01:14:03:23
Mark Titus
Bye now.

01:14:04:01 - 01:14:08:10
Melanie Brown
Bye bye.

01:14:08:13 - 01:14:21:01
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?

01:14:21:03 - 01:14:47:02
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening to say what you love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts. You can check out photos and links from this episode at Eva's Wild dot com. While there, you can join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter. You'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way.

01:14:47:04 - 01:15:26:03
Mark Titus
That's It Eva's wild. That's the word Save spelled backwards. Wild dot com. This episode was produced by Tyler Wight and edited by Patrick Troll. Original music was created by Whiskey Class. This podcast is a collaboration between Ava's Wild Stories and Salmon Nation and was recorded on the Homelands of the Duwamish people. We'd like to recognize these lands and waters and their significance for the peoples who lived and continue to live in this region, whose practices and spirituality these were and are tied to the land in the water and whose lives continue to enrich and develop in relationship to the land waters and other inhabitants today.