Save What You Love with Mark Titus

00:00:00:04 - 00:00:23:02
Mark Titus
Welcome to the Save What You Love podcast. I'm Mark Titus. Today we're speaking with Russ Ricketts. Russ is a good friend of mine. He is a river snorkel here and a father and a person who is concerned about this planet that we live on. I couldn't think of a better person to express saving what you love locally than Russ.

00:00:23:04 - 00:00:40:13
Mark Titus
Russ is going to talk about how he came to experience local rivers and how it changed his life by dip in his head under the water and seeing what's been there all along. If you're enjoying the show, please consider giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts and you can write a review in your own words if you feel up to it.

00:00:40:13 - 00:01:05:02
Mark Titus
It really helps us get exposure for the program. And also, it is summer grilling season. If you are looking for a Father's Day gift, look no further than evaswild.com. You can find yourself a summer grilling experience kit there to send to your dad, wherever he may be. Your dad will then get three months worth of salmon delivered monthly, two filets per month, flash frozen to his doorstep.

00:01:05:04 - 00:01:29:08
Mark Titus
Also a Tom Douglas rub, a VR experience kit and copies of both of my documentaries The Breach and the Wild for him to download and own forever. Once again, that's at evaswild.com. That's the word save spelled backwards while icon for today. Please enjoy this amazing interview with Russ and have a wonderful week. I'll see you next time.

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Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:02:05:20 - 00:02:17:05
Mark Titus
Russ Ricketts, welcome. We're shaking Hands were shaking hands. Guess this is the first this is the very first recording of the Save What You Love podcast we've ever done in person.

00:02:17:07 - 00:02:21:04
Russ Ricketts
So are you talking with real people all those other times? Or is it just kind of.

00:02:21:06 - 00:02:29:08
Mark Titus
They're real people. They're real people. They're really good people. And I tell you what, man, I'm having a ball. And it's this is so much fun and.

00:02:29:08 - 00:02:31:08
Russ Ricketts
You're doing good, dude. Thank you. You're doing a good work.

00:02:31:08 - 00:02:31:22
Mark Titus
It's fun.

00:02:31:22 - 00:02:33:10
Russ Ricketts
It's not easy.

00:02:33:12 - 00:02:51:22
Mark Titus
You know? And I don't know, this is one of those things my aunt told me when I was a kid. She used to take me out to lunch, Aunt Judy, one of my big mentors, and she always said, Do whatever is like fallen off a log to you and to me, I don't know. Talking and telling stories is that thing.

00:02:51:22 - 00:02:56:21
Russ Ricketts
So I will not accuse you of not being able to talk. Right. Big talker.

00:02:56:23 - 00:03:06:04
Mark Titus
All right. Well, folks, what a treat today. Russ Ricketts, all the way from Leavenworth, Washington. We've been friends for a long time now.

00:03:06:09 - 00:03:09:14
Russ Ricketts
It has started to add up. Yeah, we've gotten a little gray together.

00:03:09:14 - 00:03:13:08
Mark Titus
And, yeah, I was noticing it shut out. All right.

00:03:13:08 - 00:03:28:10
Russ Ricketts
So tried to do that. Was it just for men? But it doesn't work on your face. Don't do it. See, I went in. I went in for the I. I caution the audience directly. I'll make these points every time I look at you straight. I'm telling you something important. Okay?

00:03:28:12 - 00:03:51:15
Mark Titus
We're figuring out camera angles today, too, which is really fun. So. Well, look, you are an inspiration to me and a lot of other people for the work you do and for the kind of man you are. I'd like to just start out. Tell us your story. What? Where? How did you come into this notion of immersing yourself literally in the things and the thing that you love?

00:03:51:19 - 00:03:57:07
Mark Titus
And how did you get to this point? Go way back and tell us the whole thing way back.

00:03:57:07 - 00:04:15:15
Russ Ricketts
I grew up on a river, so I was always kind of I grew up on a creek. It wasn't really qualified as a river, and we just spent all summer swimming and camping and burning stuff and, you know, and we set up a tent in June and we took it down in August and we just lived on creek.

00:04:15:20 - 00:04:44:02
Russ Ricketts
And honestly, I really don't remember the creek that I live on really being particularly fishy. Like there really wasn't a lot of salmon back then and trout and steelhead, like we didn't have these huge memories of there being fish. It was close waters. We didn't fish, but it just like that life in and around water, like I would sleep at night and my window was always open a little bit and I could just hear the creek outside my window my whole life.

00:04:44:02 - 00:05:31:20
Russ Ricketts
And so I just kind of innately, you know, I'm like just free connected with water and then kind of moving on. I went and worked in Alaska for 11 years, kind of like you. I think we were up there about the same time. Yeah, late nineties were all the nineties. Actually. I was out there for all the nineties and then worked in Bristol Bay, worked on the Beach gang at E Cock, which was words go back and company cannery and unloaded fish would jump in the hold of the boat and filled the fish every day again and again and again around the clock and had fish growing up steelhead on the Stillaguamish River, primarily North

00:05:31:20 - 00:06:02:09
Russ Ricketts
Fork Stillaguamish, but kind of like came back and kind of realized, just like the state of affairs with steelhead and salmon in Washington were really terrible. You know, went from like there being still be in commercial fisheries for salmon in Puget Sound when I was a kid to like now there's no salmon as an adult and that really kind of opened my eyes up to just like, Wow, this is a disaster.

00:06:02:11 - 00:06:27:04
Russ Ricketts
And I was young, I was in my twenties, and I just kind of went off and did other stuff. I sort of rock climbing a lot and I saw snowboarding a lot and I just kind of went away from fish and then came back when I moved to Leavenworth. And my buddy Matt Collins was just like a fisheries biologist and he's like, You should go snorkeling with me.

00:06:27:04 - 00:06:43:11
Russ Ricketts
We sitting here with scorpions, one of the river and going to the river where I live is like, like this. You could go to the river, pour yourself a cup of coffee at home. We're going to the river. We get to the river. And you not only didn't drink the coffee, but the coffee was still too hot to drink.

00:06:43:11 - 00:07:05:20
Russ Ricketts
It's that close to town. So we go right there and I jump in and I'm seeing Chinook salmon that swam over 500 miles to the you right there by my house. And I'd done a little bit of snorkeling. And so I saw this incredible scene and I was just like, wow. And my buddy was kind of on same lines, you know?

00:07:05:20 - 00:07:44:00
Russ Ricketts
And so he was he was a biologist and basically was kind of already on the burnout track for salmon sciences. And so I picked it up and he let it go. And I started snorkeling all the time. He kind of got out of it. We still swam a little bit together for fun, but I mean, salmon is definitely a kind of a game for those with that either a level head or just you're not going to make it because the news is always kind of bad.

00:07:44:02 - 00:08:04:05
Russ Ricketts
But anyway, I started snorkeling a lot and coming from a background where I can rock climbing, everything is a known quantity. You know, this cliff is called this, This root is called that. Is this hard? This is the moves. You know, this mountain is like this is like that. You climb it like this. This is good style and snorkeling.

00:08:04:05 - 00:08:36:14
Russ Ricketts
There was absolutely none of that. And I was able to basically have free rein over everything that I could see with no one there to tell me where to go or how to go or what to do or and so I basically just enjoyed, you know, about ten years of just kind of rambling and exploring, looking at blue lines on the map or driving roads, kind of like for fishing.

00:08:36:14 - 00:09:05:09
Russ Ricketts
But all these places are closed to fishing. There's no one out there even fishing for them, you know. And so I was able to kind of explore a whole new world in a way that was based on primarily off just my own ideas and to explore something like that for that amount of time meant that, number one, like you're going to come across in Revelations and you're going to have a lot of inspiration.

00:09:05:11 - 00:09:33:07
Russ Ricketts
And then two, you get pretty weird too, you know? You know you're getting weird. Yeah, well, yeah, a little bit. You know, I can you spend a lot of time by yourself? Kind of immersing yourself in an artistic endeavor or a exploratory endeavor or a itself, a journey of self understanding. Like, yeah, you kind of go places, and I kind of went places that were good, you know, a lot of inspiration and a lot of adventure.

00:09:33:07 - 00:09:55:23
Russ Ricketts
And, you know, over the years I kind of generated some friends that I would go with but never really like 99% of what I do. I find myself still to this day. But yeah, man. And so I started taking photos and I was terrible. Like it was not matching. And then my buddy was snowboarding too, and he's like, Dude, you got to check out this new camera.

00:09:55:23 - 00:10:21:11
Russ Ricketts
It's called GoPro. And that was the first GoPro, that hero. And I was just like, that looks a lot better than what I got going on. It's smaller, it's simpler, there's one button, and so I saved up money for a long time and bought a GoPro. And that's still the camera that I use to this day. I've, you know, they've gotten a little bit fancier, but I'm still kind of a one button cameraman.

00:10:21:13 - 00:10:43:05
Mark Titus
Look, the best camera is the one you got with you. True, as we know. And man, the less complex, the better. Yeah, it's pretty incredible what you can do in that tiny little package, and especially if you've got gear and you're underwater and you're fumbling around with stuff. Yeah, I see it. Look, there's like, 100 things I want to ask you based on that lead I.

00:10:43:05 - 00:10:45:03
Russ Ricketts
Just gave you the whole thing and, like, 5 minutes.

00:10:45:03 - 00:11:09:12
Mark Titus
Thank you. Thank you for the lead up. Thank you. Eight for the breadcrumbs in the trail and the path that leads us to Mount Rushmore. But, you know, speaking of mountains, that's the first thing I was thinking of. As you know, I like to fish and more so for being connected in the water with a fish, if I'm lucky enough.

00:11:09:12 - 00:11:32:21
Mark Titus
If that ever happens. And lately I've really been pondering that kind of activity, looking up at the mountains, you know, standing in the Snoqualmie River in the Skagit, looking at the north north Cascades. And it's an interesting transition to me that you started out growing up next to a river and now you live in a mountain community and you made that transition.

00:11:32:21 - 00:11:39:20
Mark Titus
Did you ever have a conscious connection about all of that stuff being No.

00:11:39:22 - 00:12:00:07
Russ Ricketts
No. I mean, well, yeah, I think that if you grow up like in the Puget Sound region, like the mountains are always kind of these like compass points, like you always kind of know where you're at. Exactly. Yeah. Like if you're in Florida, that's harder to do because there's no range of mountains that you can go, Well, that's east or that's west.

00:12:00:07 - 00:12:28:06
Russ Ricketts
And yeah, I mean, I, I think that this is kind of talking about like what I kind of organically kind of had to develop over time. I did not go to college, barely made it out of high school, was like basically, you know, nicely asked, do not come back to this place. John Mathis, you're the man. Anyway, I was.

00:12:28:07 - 00:12:58:12
Russ Ricketts
I was, yeah. I mean, cast out into the world like very little education, but intuitive, you know? And so, like, basically kind of starting to formulate my own understanding about how the systems work, like healthy forests, healthy river, healthy river, healthy fish. Yeah, exactly. You know, like having and then I really started to ponder like the primeval landscape that I inhabit.

00:12:58:14 - 00:13:30:03
Russ Ricketts
And, you know, this has been hugely misaligned and misunderstood the idea of pristine wilderness or whatever, you know, and what's now become more widely known as a pretty controlled ecosystem. But like, it's hard to imagine what this place looked like in order for salmon to fly free in the numbers that they did. I think it was a so much vastly different landscape.

00:13:30:05 - 00:14:00:16
Russ Ricketts
And there was water and timber everywhere, just everywhere. So naturally fish are going to be everywhere. Like it's I don't know. I mean, that's kind of what I think about when I'm spending time by myself. I, I search out like this still these remaining pockets of old growth or whatever and say like, this is the ideal, but really, like this was right down here in the Duwamish mouth like this was right here.

00:14:00:18 - 00:14:02:10
Russ Ricketts
There was fish spawning here.

00:14:02:10 - 00:14:22:08
Mark Titus
I look at that frequently. We take our little boat out into Puget Sound in L.A. Bay and look back at the city just there last night and try to imagine what that was and what the the forest was like in the mouth of that Duwamish teeming with Chinook. Yeah. And it wasn't that long ago.

00:14:22:10 - 00:14:24:19
Russ Ricketts
No, no.

00:14:24:21 - 00:15:00:08
Mark Titus
Well, so this is all kind of leading us toward a somewhat gloomy picture in our local environs. And yet there are some fish left. There are some places that are pretty amazing left. And how do you, with your work, try to emphasize those things or do you like what is the emphasis of your work in terms of bringing images and experiences to people?

00:15:00:10 - 00:15:12:05
Mark Titus
Is it to garner hope? Is it to garner activism? Is it a testament to what was and what may be gone? What how how do you how do you find work?

00:15:12:05 - 00:15:35:05
Russ Ricketts
Is work is a tricky way to put it, because I'm actually not in this business. I, I don't work in fish at all. I'm a professional stage in my work in entertainment works not being that great lately, but this is just a passion thing for me. And, you know, I donate my work or sell my work for a very reasonable amount of money.

00:15:35:07 - 00:15:45:16
Russ Ricketts
I license to people. Thank you, man. That's how we met. Yes. I was like, You're making a fish movie. I've got the fish footage. Here you go, buddy. I like what you're doing. And that's good for me.

00:15:45:16 - 00:15:46:08
Mark Titus
That's right.

00:15:46:10 - 00:15:54:09
Russ Ricketts
Yeah. It it's a tough thing, but I like to still think that there's hope.

00:15:54:10 - 00:15:55:02
Music

00:15:55:04 - 00:16:28:06
Russ Ricketts
I want to think that even though salmon in the modern age is. It's like it. I always said that it's like an aggregate problem with the aggregate solution. Like there is like, a million things that are broken, But that doesn't mean you can't still try and fix those things. Like, yeah, you know, that little, little project that they did, they replaced that culvert or they fix this part of the of the stream and it kind of brought some connectivity back into there.

00:16:28:06 - 00:16:58:03
Russ Ricketts
Like those things do matter. Like it really does. And that's one thing that I noticed when I looked in the water. It was like, this one root ward has 200 fish behind it, like that one root, while this one thing is one object in a river is incredibly important. And so there is hope that if we can just really magnify our commitment to these things, that it will actually work.

00:16:58:09 - 00:17:18:16
Russ Ricketts
Although we're up against like just people that it's not that they don't care, it's just that this isn't part of their life and this isn't part of their jam. Like they're just living and working and trying to survive. And it's hard and it's they're just trying to pay the bills and it's kind of like to have the luxury to care about things that don't directly impact you.

00:17:18:16 - 00:17:41:00
Russ Ricketts
Is it's just that it's kind of a luxury really, to have the time to care. And I've been in places in my life where I've had that time and I've been in places in my life where I haven't had that time and I've just tried to just survive. And that's.

00:17:41:02 - 00:17:42:03
Mark Titus
Well, I tell you, I mean, I.

00:17:42:03 - 00:17:55:14
Russ Ricketts
Try and instill hope. I try and instill I try and feature the work of good people doing good work. And that to me is the work that I do.

00:17:55:16 - 00:18:18:22
Mark Titus
And it is work. Don't sell yourself short, man. It is. It is a body of work. It is unique and it is based on that word that you used. Passion. It is passion. Yeah. And I want to dig into this a little further now. Do you still sell your shirts now? Okay, well, for a while, Russ had these really cool.

00:18:19:00 - 00:18:34:09
Mark Titus
And I have one. I just wear it just enough so I don't make it threadbare. It falls all over it. But it's it's a it's a mask. And, you know, I'll put it up in the show notes. It's a mask and it says, Know your local river or swim your local river.

00:18:34:11 - 00:18:40:00
Russ Ricketts
Explorer your explore, know whether it's the local river parks.

00:18:40:00 - 00:19:02:21
Mark Titus
Or your local river. Okay, This is the point I think that brings it home for me with with this work that you're doing. When you were talking earlier about looking at the map and trying to find these blue lines and where to go and how to, that seems so daunting to me. Like even the other day I was checking out the Snoqualmie River going here.

00:19:02:21 - 00:19:28:09
Mark Titus
That looks like a pretty good drift to do a snorkel to a float, whatever. But is it do I know it is? Am I going to get sucked into the rapids or into that logjam? You know, I don't it seems kind of daunting. Right? Bring it back down to your local river. The thing that you know, to the thing in your backyard, it doesn't have to be daunting, I think is what you told me.

00:19:28:11 - 00:19:57:21
Mark Titus
And that's the feeling of hope that I get, is like when I go and explore something that is in my home state, in my home county, in my, you know, literally 20 minutes from where we're sitting right here, it doesn't seem so incredibly daunting and overwhelming. And and at the same time, you're immersing and transforming by going into this other world that was there all along.

00:19:57:23 - 00:19:58:17
Russ Ricketts
Yeah.

00:19:58:19 - 00:20:05:18
Mark Titus
And has that transformed your way of looking at the world, especially where you live right now?

00:20:05:20 - 00:20:27:08
Russ Ricketts
There was some hope that that was kind of going to be the jam like like, Look, man, we can't save the whole thing. Like, I can't go and save whales, right? There's no whales where I live. Like, I have very little in daily interaction with whales. What I can go and save is this tree that they're going to cut down down the street.

00:20:27:10 - 00:20:45:12
Russ Ricketts
So that's going to cut down tree. I care about what's in my backyard. I care what's in my region. I care what's in my direct spear of understanding. And like we're all it's like, that's it. We're the aggregate solution to the aggregate problem is that if we all just kind of care about what's happening around us, guess what?

00:20:45:12 - 00:21:20:14
Russ Ricketts
There's a lot of us around. Everything else. Exactly. And we're hoping to conveniently also be the problem that is causing all that heartache and heartfelt ness. And so, yeah, if you can kind of just like do local work and that is good work, you don't have to have these super broad reaching ideals to make a difference. And so like what I do, like in my own life, like I would try and volunteer for this, I would try and volunteer for that.

00:21:20:16 - 00:21:44:16
Russ Ricketts
And in the end I just realized, like the work that needs to be done is just a feature of the work of other people that are trying to do the same thing that I'm doing and that, I mean, see what you all about social media, you know, great, evil, great, you know, all that. But like what I've done is just say, like, this person over here is doing good work, and if you like what they're doing, follow them.

00:21:44:18 - 00:22:11:09
Russ Ricketts
You know, support this person, you know, share their work, inspire others to look at that work. And that really means a lot to a person who's just as passionate as me, who's out there, you know, on a Tuesday afternoon, you know, getting after it, trying to film their local fish or are trying to do that and sort of share that work has been and to make sure we always check back like, hey, does that work for you?

00:22:11:09 - 00:22:35:04
Russ Ricketts
Like, did people come and following you in support your what they're doing and they say, yeah, I like. And that's a tremendous win for both of us. Like I don't have any stake. Like I don't run a company. There's no nonprofit. I run what? I run out of a lawn chair in my garden shed. Usually that's where I like to go and post like you've got a nicer garden shed.

00:22:35:04 - 00:22:36:11
Russ Ricketts
Mark But it's the same.

00:22:36:12 - 00:22:41:19
Mark Titus
I don't know, man. I kind of dig yourself A lot of days I run, but you know what I mean.

00:22:41:19 - 00:23:10:17
Russ Ricketts
No, I mean, you're doing what you can do with what's within your sphere of influence. And so, yeah, that's, that's really in the long way around. Like, yeah, what you care about around you can be influence. I think what we're kind of against you and Salmon though, is that we're going through all the motions and we're doing all the right things and we're, we're, we're doing all the mechanisms that typically would work.

00:23:10:19 - 00:23:36:01
Russ Ricketts
And they're not working or we're not seeing enough buy in from politicians or we're not seeing enough buy in from the public at large like we've talked about this so many times on. And for you guys that don't know, like Mark and I are buddies that go way back and we rarely talk about fish and more just about like how to navigate the world of trying to continue to.

00:23:36:03 - 00:23:55:00
Russ Ricketts
Yeah advocate for fish Yeah like that's really the and it's not easy to do that you know it's well difficult business to care about something that is seemingly not coming back.

00:23:55:02 - 00:24:24:08
Mark Titus
All right so we're dancing around this thing. So let's let's just let's dive into it with starving. Humor helps to the deep. Yeah. Humor. Gallows humor. I don't know. I've talked to scientists, of course, and fishermen and commercial fishermen and sport fishermen. And you're you're looking at it from a different perspective under the water. Now, granted, you know, you're not in every river in the region all the time.

00:24:24:08 - 00:24:47:15
Mark Titus
Nobody can do that. But you've seen your fair share of a cross-section in at least in Washington state and where we are. I mean, what is what is this on your estimation, what is the current state of affairs for salmon ads in the Pacific Northwest?

00:24:47:17 - 00:25:11:09
Russ Ricketts
I mean, it's not looking good. It's not looking good. You know, if year. I think that it's unfair when people say that like, well, we can't compare this to historical highs. We can't go back there. And you're like, well, yeah, I know you can't go back there, but like, this is what it really actually was. And so how do you find good?

00:25:11:11 - 00:25:44:19
Russ Ricketts
You know, it's it's kind of a a kind of shifting baseline excuse to get out of that, to be honest. Like, well, we're doing pretty good. We've got 500 fish, you know, It's like, well, that's actually not very good. That's not really good at all. Like, you need 5000. You need 50,000. We need 5 million. That's good. And to continually hear the the drumbeat that, like, you know, everything is going to be okay if we just have more hatcheries or if we just kill some sea lions or or whatever.

00:25:44:21 - 00:26:04:02
Russ Ricketts
Like, you know, it's always the other guy. Yeah, it's always the other guy. And it's like, No, dude, it's really it's all of us. It's me wanting to drive my car. It's me. You want the weather? My house is me wanting to, like, have things like, we're the problem. Yeah. And if you don't see it from your house, who cares?

00:26:04:03 - 00:26:28:09
Russ Ricketts
Like, really like this is. This is just the way of the world. I mean, you can't fix all these problems. And so the state of salmon in Washington is that it's I, I mean, the I don't talk to fishermen and I'm not a fisherman. I mean, I know there's nothing against fishing. I talk to mostly scientists. And when you go to their meetings, they're just like, yeah.

00:26:28:09 - 00:27:06:07
Russ Ricketts
And you look at the graph and it's just goes I mean, they all know it's going to zero in a lot of regions. Now, there are some obvious bright spots, you know, where we've taken extraordinary actions and made extruded airy commitments to salmon. We're seeing extraordinary results like in the all along, which is like to me the only thing and a lot of times that keeps me in the game is to think like now if we actually do do this and we actually care enough to make an incredible commitment, then we can definitely we see results and they are seeing results.

00:27:06:09 - 00:27:11:19
Russ Ricketts
I think that's yes, that's what we're talking about here.

00:27:11:21 - 00:27:43:07
Mark Titus
ELWA is extraordinary and you listed some really important factors as to why we're floundering here. Political will right at the top of it. And both, you know, with our elected officials and with the public, us holding those officials accountable. 90% of people in this region say over and over again that they would vote for do what is necessary to support the survival of wild salmon.

00:27:43:07 - 00:28:18:04
Mark Titus
And yet when hard issues come up like removing the lower four Snake River dams, somebody suggests something and the rest of the crew hastily dismisses it because it's not the right package. And so I've heard some politicians say a few things, but I'd like to know, from your perspective on the ground, what's it going to take to catch this flywheel of public participation from people in their local communities?

00:28:18:04 - 00:28:43:21
Mark Titus
They're exploring their local rivers, exploring their local creeks, exploring their local ponds, just getting excited, man, about life, about something that, you know, these what these salmon represent, which is something bigger than ourselves, you know, you've done it, and I think you are a beacon for other people, too, to see what's under the surface. What's the first step?

00:28:43:21 - 00:28:46:14
Mark Titus
How do we start this thing?

00:28:46:16 - 00:29:25:04
Russ Ricketts
You know, when they I think the most seminal moment that I've seen for salmon is when people that weren't involved at all with salmon got involved with wanting to save killer whales. Interesting. Yeah. The killer whale people got numbers that the salmon people would die for. It was little kids writing little, little letters to Jay Inslee on their save the well, you know, it's like, you know, and all these people that, like, never really cared too much about salmon, and rightfully so.

00:29:25:04 - 00:29:54:14
Russ Ricketts
It's not really that it's not in their life. You don't see salmon, but it's killer whale. They were all over it. People were writing in record numbers. People were calling the governor's office like no one had ever even seen. And they established a task force. And everybody, you know, all the nonprofits and all the government agencies and all the tribes and everybody, all went down there and conducted these giant set of meetings and absolutely nothing happened.

00:29:54:16 - 00:30:24:21
Russ Ricketts
That was no yes, but not the doubts. And I'm sorry, man. It wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough. And I felt like all that was, to be completely honest, if everybody got paid and nothing happened again. And that's just what I see over and over and over again, that there is a business behind salmon know, business behind recovery and a business that's involved with spending salmon recovery dollars.

00:30:24:23 - 00:31:01:13
Russ Ricketts
And of course, everyone wants to save salmon. But when the decisions that are involved with the recovery of these species are so centric to boardrooms and to endless amounts and meetings, people become disconnected from what they're actually trying to save. And it just becomes another product. It just becomes another. They lose sight of what's actually going wrong here in a way.

00:31:01:14 - 00:31:26:13
Russ Ricketts
Yeah. And it's just like it's business and they're just negotiating and they losing sight of the fact that, like, I don't need another task force to show me that the house is burning down. I'd really just like you guys to dump some water on it. That's cool. And I'm not seeing that, really. And I know and this is, this is unfair to the people that work in salmon and salmon recovery.

00:31:26:15 - 00:31:56:11
Russ Ricketts
You guys are doing good work and I'm looking right at you. You're doing good work. But at the same time, there's a sense of urgency that seems to be missing here and sitting in on some of those meetings and and listening to the endless negotiations about who gets what, honestly, when they're losing sight of the bigger picture that like rapidly these are not coming back rapidly.

00:31:56:13 - 00:32:28:02
Russ Ricketts
Jay Inslee had a really golden opportunity to tear down those dams. He didn't need anybody's permission. He could have just did it, and instead he didn't. And I'm a lifelong Democrat. I get it. He had a lot at stake here. He was trying to do the right thing. But in the end, like those dams could have come down and they could have been come down cheaply, as Jim Martin always told us in the top of his lungs for years and years and years and go to work.

00:32:28:04 - 00:32:54:10
Russ Ricketts
I'm really surprised, honestly, that the state of Idaho or the Confederated Tribes of Idaho aren't suing the state of Washington in federal court. Like, I don't understand, like, why are they not taking us to court? Like, why are you saying that? Like, basically the actions in your state are contributing to the decline of salmon in our own and basically, like we're going to have some words about this, like where's Idaho and all this?

00:32:54:10 - 00:33:21:05
Russ Ricketts
I know that the senator from Idaho extremely I mean, we're all very thankful. And that's the kind of leadership that I want to see, like difficult decisions made quickly. Like we don't need to study this problem anymore, Mark. We don't like I have a lot of friends that are scientists and I love the work they're doing. It's time to act and it's time to.

00:33:21:07 - 00:33:29:19
Russ Ricketts
Yeah, and some of those big ticket items aren't that big a ticket. If you really look at the budget that we're spending on other crap. Well.

00:33:29:21 - 00:33:36:07
Mark Titus
You know, Mike Simpson from. Sorry, just got it. Hey, man, I tried.

00:33:36:07 - 00:33:38:18
Russ Ricketts
To stay calm and not quite.

00:33:38:20 - 00:33:43:04
Mark Titus
Why we signed up here. So this is the hard work.

00:33:43:06 - 00:33:45:22
Russ Ricketts
It's going to drink a little of the coin. Cool down here for.

00:33:46:00 - 00:33:53:09
Mark Titus
Representative Simpson from Idaho. And it is representative. Yes, he's a representative.

00:33:53:10 - 00:33:54:09
Russ Ricketts
There's a senator, I believe.

00:33:54:10 - 00:34:27:04
Mark Titus
Senator. Okay. Yeah, he stepped out. And from what I've read about his genesis on this journey for himself, it was in a backcountry trip. He was on he was looking at water. Yeah, he was affected profoundly. Yeah. About the multigenerational effects that his action or inaction would have right now, based on the position that he is privileged to hold.

00:34:27:07 - 00:34:27:22
Russ Ricketts
Yeah.

00:34:28:00 - 00:35:08:13
Mark Titus
As a representative of the people and as we know of those who are into John Muir and the national parks. And I also think, you know, America's best idea, as Ken Burns is has posited in large part happened because to people took the time to go experience it. Teddy Roosevelt, John Muir out in the back 40 and that's kind of where I'm going with this is like how do we it's how do we encourage folks, how do we make accessible to folks?

00:35:08:13 - 00:35:30:19
Mark Titus
Can we use technology in ways that we haven't done yet? Not everybody's going to you know, how long did it take you to get me out on the river? Took about a year. And it wasn't because I didn't want to was because, man, I got to get the wetsuit and I got to drive east to the mountains and I got to clear my calendar and I got this and I got that and life and it's all B.S. And it's a it's an excuse.

00:35:30:19 - 00:35:48:02
Mark Titus
And of course, you know, that all led up to a miraculous afternoon, like one of the most beautiful and memorable afternoons I've had in my adult life by spending several hours in the river with you and some friends and.

00:35:48:04 - 00:35:51:00
Russ Ricketts
But, I mean, that's just like it can't all be like that.

00:35:51:00 - 00:35:53:01
Mark Titus
Dude. That's what I'm saying. It can't be like that.

00:35:53:01 - 00:36:06:20
Russ Ricketts
It's like the only reason I got in the store going is in that kind of river, like 5 minutes in my house. In 5 minutes is like. I mean, I got to the river one minute. Yeah, but I had to drive 4 minutes up the river, get to the other spot. You know what I mean? Like, most people don't live like that.

00:36:06:22 - 00:36:09:08
Russ Ricketts
They live where they live. They care about what they care about.

00:36:09:08 - 00:36:38:21
Mark Titus
That's true. But can you find wonder the same sort of wonder what what is the. Well, David James Duncan talks about it in in in my story is told by water. You know he grew up on Johnson Creek in Portland which was a nasty backwater trip of the Willamette and and he still found wonder he found connection in the eye of a coho in connecting with a steelhead that had wandered up that system.

00:36:38:23 - 00:36:39:07
Russ Ricketts
And that.

00:36:39:07 - 00:37:21:07
Mark Titus
Look, we're not all fishermen and fish are women. We're not all snorkelers. But like, I guess that's the point of the conversation here. It's like, what can we do to increase this awareness of wonder that leads us back to these source points, which are, you know, the the places where salmon thrive, these rivers and mountains and streams, you know, I guess the short Disney answer is like, get out there, experience it.

00:37:21:09 - 00:37:38:01
Mark Titus
But as you've well pointed out and I pointed out, it's not that easy for most of us, especially if you live in the city. What are some other ways that you've experienced that sort of wonder without that kind of access?

00:37:38:02 - 00:38:06:15
Russ Ricketts
Well, I think that, like media plays an important role here. But, you know, it's like you remember the first time when we all saw like Planet Earth and we were like, goddamn like, wow yeah, like that is incredible. Yeah. And then there was just like a million nature documentaries that came out after that. And after a while, like, even if it has the most incredible footage or whatever, like, yeah, I just want to watch, you know, my two dads or whatever that show, you know what I mean?

00:38:06:17 - 00:38:30:01
Russ Ricketts
You just want to watch something else because you don't want to think about that all the time. But like, I think there's a couple of vectors that are really important as kids is making sure that kids have access to nature. And like not only access to nature, but like some kind of like guidance. When they access nature, you know, it's like nature is always pretty like, wow, that's pretty.

00:38:30:01 - 00:38:49:08
Russ Ricketts
But at the same time, like going, well, that's really pretty. But, you know, like, here's what this actually is, you know, and check out this and here's a little factoid about that. And here's what you can do to learn about your trees or your birds or, you know, like one of the most like we had a really great nature experience here in a park in Seattle.

00:38:49:08 - 00:39:03:03
Russ Ricketts
The last time I was in town, I walked through and I was looking at all these trees and none of them were native. They were planted there from all over the country, in the world. And we were like, you know, I use a little app and I'm like, This tree is this like, Wow, that's gorgeous and that's that.

00:39:03:03 - 00:39:26:14
Russ Ricketts
So I mean, it's available. It's about just like, inspiring people to actually, like, go a step farther at that critical junction when they go to somewhere. It's not just a photo backdrop, dude. You know, we see that a lot with with young people that the world is just kind of like this, this backdrop for their their their social media stories or whatever.

00:39:26:14 - 00:39:53:22
Russ Ricketts
Like that was like, no, these are incredibly magnificent, sacred places that are yours. Dude, this is isn't England the king? Don't own that, man. You can go in that river, which is the way it is in England when someone else owns the river. Right? Or owns that land. Yeah, you can walk across it, but don't linger too often now, like, no, we actually changed the narrative and we can go to there.

00:39:53:22 - 00:40:20:20
Russ Ricketts
We can go and camp and go with COVID. I saw a lot of people that were this is my first time and I'm kind of like, That's super cool. Is there somebody or some, you know, way that we could say like, Hey, super cool. It is so good to see you, my man. It's so good to see you out here, man.

00:40:20:22 - 00:40:42:19
Russ Ricketts
Now, could you please not throw your trash on the ground? Because in the city, who cares? St your town, You know, you don't own that skyscraper, you don't own that street, You don't own this place. You just are subservient to it. You live here, you do your best. But no out here you do on this. We all on this.

00:40:42:19 - 00:41:12:21
Russ Ricketts
And in the treat our wild spaces differently than we treat our public spaces, you know. And that's a conversation that is difficult to have. But honestly, like, I don't know how else to do it. Like, nature isn't for us. We are simply just tourists in it. Like the needs of nature are not dependent on our needs. And that's the bottom line.

00:41:12:21 - 00:41:37:19
Russ Ricketts
Like nature doesn't need us, man. We're there to experience it. And it's treated with a little of reverence. And I'll see you next time. Nature. I got to go back to work, you know, and and that's the relationship that I have in the nature. Like, no, I have no right here. I treat it with respect and I'm out and I'll I'll see you next time.

00:41:37:19 - 00:42:06:00
Russ Ricketts
Nature. And I got nature right in my back yard, dude. I go out the back porch and get nature. If I really want it, but like, it's still the same relationship of like, thanks for having me. I'll do my best, you know? And that's where you can turn the tide with people that are new to nature. And anyway, like, yeah, we're talking about fish or whatever, but like, the same conversation applies to everything.

00:42:06:02 - 00:42:40:08
Mark Titus
Absolutely. And I, you know, I won't try to quote the oft cited Chief self Chief Seattle speech is beautiful and wherever it originated from, there's there's been some, you know, discussion that maybe it didn't come directly from his mouth. It doesn't really matter. It came from that era. It came from the ethos that he prescribed. And his people lived for 10,000 years in this region, and that is we don't own this thing.

00:42:40:08 - 00:43:27:10
Mark Titus
We are a part of this thing. We are not the domineering masters. And I think ultimately that is where there is just sort of this binary cutoff of like either you believe that or you don't. You believe that in this Manifest Destiny idea that we are here to reap the benefits from nature for humankind. And if you bet, if you can get to that tipping point of, yeah, I see how I am part of this landscape that that mountain provides the snow on the mountain, provides the water for the river, which feeds the roots of the trees, which literally contain salmon, because the salmon have gone out to the ocean and brought the nutrients

00:43:27:10 - 00:43:48:15
Mark Titus
and died at the base of those trees. And these things are all connected. And if you see that, if you experience it in that way, in a profound way, even a small way, and just make that connection that, yeah, I'm a part of this thing, but I don't necessarily dominate or should dominate over this thing, We have a chance.

00:43:48:17 - 00:43:59:18
Mark Titus
I want to go back to what you said earlier about taking a selfie or things, you know, like with technology. And honestly, man, I don't care what it takes.

00:43:59:20 - 00:44:01:06
Russ Ricketts
You take great selfies when you talk.

00:44:01:06 - 00:44:04:11
Mark Titus
You know, not me.

00:44:04:13 - 00:44:06:17
Russ Ricketts
I know that last one. Amazing.

00:44:06:17 - 00:44:32:16
Mark Titus
Yeah. So I know it. Well, it's because I got this really great selfie stick. But look, I think that there is a real opportunity in technology, and, you know, honestly, whatever. There is a thousand roads to Mecca and whatever it takes. And if it is literally young people posting cool pictures of trees, I don't really care what it takes to get there.

00:44:32:16 - 00:44:59:19
Mark Titus
If if it elicits an appreciation for and a hunger for more, but more so on the the fact of what you were talking about seeing just outside of your back door, my wife and I got like a little bird book and yeah, there's all kinds of free resources that you can get from Audubon Society. You can get an app to check out the birds in your area.

00:44:59:19 - 00:45:51:17
Mark Titus
They've got even the calls on them. Washington Trails Association is another group that you can access all of what it has for free. There's things that are out there to be able to access and appreciate those things that we do have access to, right? Robin Wall Kimmerer, wonderful author of Braiding Sweetgrass, talks about naming a thing. And and I think that we're all we're coming continually back to this to this this idea that you are living in and that you are championing with your work, which is explore your local explore if that's the birds on the back porch, like you said, like coming up with a name, understanding the name of the trees that are

00:45:51:17 - 00:46:12:10
Mark Titus
around us, the grasses, the, the, the herbs that that to me is something that we can do. And you do all of a sudden have a bigger, deeper appreciation and feeling of connection. Once you've associated a name with this thing and you've done this underwater.

00:46:12:12 - 00:46:38:01
Russ Ricketts
Yeah, you can, you can do that. I kind of want to touch back there real quick. Yeah, like you can. I think there's a difference between like understanding what you're looking at and understanding like the names and things like that, but also kind of like without taking ownership of it in a way that you can be protective of it, but you can't own it, right?

00:46:38:03 - 00:47:02:12
Russ Ricketts
You know what I mean? Like, it has to. This isn't for us. And that's a tough one. That's a tough one because that's what we do. Man. You here on seventh and 5050, first on the corner of this and this, you know, like this way. That's how we understand our world is to name things like I don't think what fishermen would call hot spot.

00:47:02:12 - 00:47:26:01
Russ Ricketts
Like, I don't talk about locations about where I go. I don't I religiously don't talk locations about where I go because I saw the power of what that can do to a special place and to go in and create the game is to encourage people to go and find their own special places around them and see like that might be the city park might.

00:47:26:06 - 00:47:33:15
Russ Ricketts
It's a little thing that right down there that might be the ditch that goes behind your, you know, your like the other like, wow, I see all these birds.

00:47:33:15 - 00:47:35:16
Mark Titus
In Johnson Creek.

00:47:35:18 - 00:47:40:15
Russ Ricketts
it's up there on Gabby Rock Canyon Creek or. Yeah. What's the other one. That is Rock Creek, you know.

00:47:40:18 - 00:47:41:13
Mark Titus
Yeah.

00:47:41:15 - 00:48:19:05
Russ Ricketts
But these picked the most common name and go with that. But, but, but I get that you just like what you're talking about Mark. Like nature is is is there if you're willing to to take the time out for it you know you got you got the bird app and you got to just walk around in and your street down by the park, down by the beach, whatever and like, my gosh, look at that, you know, red breasted nuthatch, you know, it's there's there's a sense of protection in that.

00:48:19:07 - 00:48:42:04
Russ Ricketts
Without ownership, you can't control that bird. Absolutely. Birds are a good example, actually. You know, you just fly away if it doesn't like what you got going on, what's right, Where do you go? Well, he doesn't like your jam, you know, He's he's out, man. But you can love something and not own it and you can appreciate something and not own it.

00:48:42:06 - 00:48:51:19
Russ Ricketts
Like we, yes, technically, we kind of own those public lands that I was kind of pontificating about. And at the same time, we're caretakers, stewards, stewards. It's a good.

00:48:51:19 - 00:48:52:09
Mark Titus
Word.

00:48:52:11 - 00:48:55:11
Russ Ricketts
Stewart Stewart.

00:48:55:13 - 00:49:15:14
Mark Titus
I love that word. It's come out of me. So it's kind of a clunky word growing up, but I think it is. It's like it it implies a an ephemeral sense You're passing through time. You're not you don't grab and own and hold and attach. You observe and you can love. Yeah.

00:49:15:16 - 00:49:32:01
Russ Ricketts
Deeply like stream keepers in, you know, those are those. That was a job. I mean we would have been good stream keepers too. Yeah. Tweeds. You see us with some tweed like that is What kind of fish is that.

00:49:32:03 - 00:49:34:00
Music
I don't. Moving.

00:49:34:02 - 00:49:35:02
Russ Ricketts
You're on the kings line.

00:49:35:04 - 00:49:37:06
Mark Titus
Bring me the nets. Bring up the nets.

00:49:37:06 - 00:49:40:19
Russ Ricketts
Slides down and turn yourself into the gullible.

00:49:40:22 - 00:49:43:09
Mark Titus
That's right.

00:49:43:10 - 00:49:45:23
Russ Ricketts
A few more misses. We'll be having this one.

00:49:46:01 - 00:49:47:13
Mark Titus
Yes.

00:49:47:14 - 00:49:48:18
Russ Ricketts
We just need more tweed.

00:49:49:00 - 00:49:59:18
Mark Titus
But we need more tweed. I don't know if we need more tubing. That just makes me pucker a little bit. This has been a tough year. This last.

00:49:59:18 - 00:50:00:21
Russ Ricketts
Year. The toughest.

00:50:00:21 - 00:50:16:02
Mark Titus
Yeah. How did you make it through and what are you looking forward to on the horizon here in terms of collaborations? How do you think collaborations can work when they work well?

00:50:16:04 - 00:50:39:09
Russ Ricketts
Well, I work in live entertainment. I work in live entertainment. I'm a rigger. I work on big television shows and big like what you would imagine a roadie would be. But I'm not a roadie. I don't tour with a band. I work on projects, and then I go home kind of different on the road. But I'm not a roadie.

00:50:39:11 - 00:51:22:22
Russ Ricketts
That all probably ceased and has yet to come back in any meaningful way. And so 2020 was the worst year ever. Like, I didn't thrive, I barely survive. It was horrible. It was horrible, man. I mean, it was absolutely devastating to just have the world at large come a lot closer to meltdown than we care to admit. I think, you know, it's like the the Cuban Missile crisis of our time.

00:51:22:22 - 00:51:59:01
Russ Ricketts
Like, yeah, it was getting crazy there and it could still get kind of crazy. And I think it was a real cautionary tale about how we choose to treat each other and I was just so saddened and shocked by the lack of just humanity. And I just think humanity, not, you know, patriotism or any of that shit, just just I thought a great deal of people giving their all for this, you know?

00:51:59:03 - 00:52:23:07
Russ Ricketts
And then I saw people that were just petty and cruel and and heartless. And sometimes we took turns on that, you know, like some days I'm crying and other days I'm like, raging at my device. It was it was horrible. But anyway, I didn't really swim at all last year. I didn't really film at all. I took like six months off of posting.

00:52:23:09 - 00:52:54:23
Russ Ricketts
I just couldn't do. I just thought like, this is kind of I just didn't have the gym and I lost my mind in late summer as far as just kind of like massive adrenal overload slash massive uncertainty. And, you know, I, I picked up another job and just kind of sputtered and thrust my way through it and try to keep my family together and food on the table.

00:52:54:23 - 00:53:13:19
Russ Ricketts
And, you know, it was like one of the most hardest experiences of my life. You know, like when you go through life, I think, like, I got this right. You know, we got this. I mean, Mark, that is I got this. You know, it's like sometimes you don't got it or sometimes I don't got it. And, you know, and you will.

00:53:13:23 - 00:53:55:00
Russ Ricketts
I understood about that. Yeah. And I do like the the compassion and humanity that you have shown me is some of the greatest that I've ever experienced my life. You know, like I. That's the glue that keeps us going, man. It really is like it was here's the dark side of the whole conservation and is that it sounds all romantic that we're going to fight the man and we're going to chain ourselves to a tree and we're going to save the whales.

00:53:55:00 - 00:54:22:10
Russ Ricketts
We're going to do all this. When you actually become intimately aware of just how massive the machine is, that humanity is it can be kind of depressing. And it is it takes a special kind of person that's able to compartmentalize and keep on going, continue on, and not fight, or someone who can just kind of blindly turn a blind eye to the inevitable tidal wave.

00:54:22:12 - 00:55:00:00
Russ Ricketts
And, you know, like I basically came out and told my readership that like, hey, dude, this is where I'm at. I've completely hit rock bottom emotionally and spiritually, and I love you guys. But like, it was disingenuous for me to sit there and try and show you pretty pictures every day or try and be excited about things when like, I was really struggling and so many people came out of the woodwork and just said, I truly I, I couldn't have been more wrong.

00:55:00:02 - 00:55:04:13
Russ Ricketts
Like humanity was there. And it's going to ask you what was spiritual.

00:55:04:15 - 00:55:06:05
Mark Titus
What was the response?

00:55:06:07 - 00:55:32:10
Russ Ricketts
Yeah, it was really humbling. It was really humbling. I was wrapped up inside myself because, I mean, dude, that's where you live, you know? Like, how'd you end up living in a hoarder house? Well, one piece at a time. You know what I mean? One piece of garbage at a time. And that's how we are as people. Like we collect the things that happen to us and we accumulate these things.

00:55:32:10 - 00:56:06:03
Russ Ricketts
And if you don't discard some of the negativity, you know, not the negativity, I think that negativity has its place, actually. But like if you don't if you can't get rid of some of that stuff that happens to you and you're just going to stagger. And that's what was happening to me. My whole world was falling apart and people were just so incredibly gracious and understanding and supporting supportive.

00:56:06:05 - 00:56:24:18
Russ Ricketts
That's how you say, right? Yeah. That it kind of like it really set me straight, you know, I felt like, you know, I felt like I was at my own funeral in a way.

00:56:24:20 - 00:56:26:03
Mark Titus
Interesting.

00:56:26:05 - 00:56:26:21
Russ Ricketts
You know what I mean?

00:56:26:21 - 00:56:38:18
Mark Titus
Like, I saw the post. I saw the post and it was beautiful. Yeah. And it was real. It was raw. And I know, I know what you mean. What you want. It's like kind of being at your own funeral. Like, I was like, Wow.

00:56:38:20 - 00:56:39:13
Russ Ricketts
You know what I mean?

00:56:39:13 - 00:56:41:13
Mark Titus
Like that. But, you know, you didn't.

00:56:41:13 - 00:56:50:23
Russ Ricketts
Know how much people love you until they actually, like, step up and say, like, No, dude, like Mark Titus, like you said. Nice thing. You know, I love you. Yeah.

00:56:51:01 - 00:57:31:10
Mark Titus
And that people are going through the same thing. I mean, in varying degrees, like, we've all got it, man. Like, in varying degrees. Some sense of recovery, some sense of trauma, you know, some are in it. It supersedes socio socioeconomic backgrounds. There are. Which is not to say that that people that don't have as much of a leg up in this world being born into whatever socio economic background they're born into, have it any better or any worse.

00:57:31:11 - 00:58:00:23
Mark Titus
It I don't I think that there are varying degrees for sure, but we all as humans feel trauma and especially when we're going through something that's so ubiquitous as a pandemic. And so, you know, when you wrote what you wrote on your social media page about, you know, sharing this vulnerability, that was really inspiring. I mean, it was really grounding to like, holy crap.

00:58:01:01 - 00:58:10:22
Russ Ricketts
Social media doesn't like that kind of stuff. You know, like, you get it once or twice. You can't do that every day or you're just, you know, just, you know, people are going.

00:58:11:00 - 00:58:37:14
Mark Titus
Yeah, but it was real, man. And and it touched my heart. And I know it touched people's hearts. Just the overwhelming responses that were in there. Well, so where does it where, you know, given this last year that we had and the depths that you've gone and we all kind of have gone in as a collective species here, what is the horizon?

00:58:37:14 - 00:58:44:13
Mark Titus
Look like to you? What is a what does work look like to you? The kind of work we're talking about, about saving these things that we love?

00:58:44:15 - 00:59:19:22
Russ Ricketts
Well, I think we better understand that we need to be able to save ourselves, too, because nature will be fine without us. It doesn't need us, right? You know, like if we can't show the slightest bit of compassion and and understanding to our fellow human beings, and how are we ever going to save some rando endangered species, you know, you're just some like, little frog that lives in a water hole in the desert.

00:59:20:04 - 00:59:46:08
Russ Ricketts
Who cares? You know, like, what's it matter what it does matter, You know, like that person that you're so in such great disagreement with about their opinions, they kind of matter actually, you know, and there's a little grain of truth inside of all inside of all of us. And so if we can't learn how to get along, then we've got real problems and we've got real problems.

00:59:46:10 - 00:59:57:01
Russ Ricketts
We can do both. But we need like some this is like one of those here's a crazy thing. It's like Sam's one of those things. It's like we kind of get behind that.

00:59:57:02 - 00:59:58:12
Music
You know.

00:59:58:14 - 01:00:23:21
Russ Ricketts
You can kind of get behind that man, right? This is like this is why people root for sports teams. Like you can get behind that. Yeah. You know, I can get behind, you know, saving this this incredible species. Like, it's not going to hurt me none. You know, I got the cheapest power in the country, dude. I can leave all the lights on in my house all day and night, and it won't even cost me that much money.

01:00:23:23 - 01:00:40:11
Russ Ricketts
You know what? I'm willing to pay a little bit more. I feel a little bit more like all that money in this state comes from Sam. Recovery comes from those dams, right? I live in the Columbia River Basin, and. Yeah, dude, I've got cheap power. Sorry, Can't guarantee, but I do.

01:00:40:13 - 01:00:54:01
Mark Titus
Well Seattle does too at the of people are now asking for Seattle for those of us living here to pay their fair share but that's another story for another day. Yeah sure and it's an important one but yeah it's true.

01:00:54:01 - 01:00:56:02
Russ Ricketts
You can get behind this you can this it doesn't.

01:00:56:02 - 01:01:21:06
Mark Titus
Hurt and that the point that I bring up to my friends in the Upper Skagit tribe and folks that live in Scotch Valley that are working on this super important issue is that, look, I bet 95% of people living in the city of Seattle don't know about this. And if they do, to your point, they they will want to get on board with this and pay a little more.

01:01:21:12 - 01:01:28:18
Mark Titus
Pay a little bit more. Put your money where your mouth is, walk the walk and I certainly feel that way.

01:01:28:19 - 01:01:44:16
Russ Ricketts
One interesting thing is figure out where your drinking water comes from. Like if you get it out of a well, it comes out of the dirt. You know, it's kind of abstract concept, you know, But city of Seattle, I guess your water from the mountains. Yes. Not just you know, I've actually gone up with folks from the city of Seattle.

01:01:44:16 - 01:02:10:05
Russ Ricketts
It's nonprofit folks to go up and survey for Steelhead in some of those drainage is incredible. You have no idea where your water comes from. It comes out of like some of the most beautiful white country you've ever seen. And the water you're drinking is incredible. Like, it's really something. Yeah. And it used to have a lot of fish in it, and they're still trying to make sure there's still some fish left in there.

01:02:10:05 - 01:02:48:08
Russ Ricketts
But like, understanding, like this kind of comes back around, like you can see what you can touch and you can actualize, like understanding where your water comes from is kind of like one of those things like, maybe we shouldn't be spraying herbicide on our national, on our, you know, timberlands, right? If that's going to come down into the reservoir where I or just anybody drinks that stuff, you know, or, or seeps into the groundwater and contaminates wells or whatever, if you want to put a human centric spin on it.

01:02:48:08 - 01:03:09:16
Russ Ricketts
Sure. If that gives you to give me a little bit more and that's great. If I can get like 1% more carrying out of you, if you put a human face on it, that's cool. Really, You don't need a human face on it to really like you shouldn't need a human face on it to care more, you know, like the way that we're treating the land, the way that we're treating the oceans, the way that we're treating our air.

01:03:09:16 - 01:03:24:00
Russ Ricketts
And everything around us is it's abstract. At a certain point, it's just noise like and this is where the depression comes in.

01:03:24:02 - 01:03:25:07
Mark Titus
Well, I want it.

01:03:25:07 - 01:03:28:07
Russ Ricketts
It's like, dude, it's overwhelming. It's truly overwhelming.

01:03:28:07 - 01:03:32:04
Mark Titus
And Then you put your head underwater.

01:03:32:06 - 01:03:34:09
Russ Ricketts
Yeah. You know.

01:03:34:11 - 01:04:01:07
Mark Titus
I would love to hear as we start wrapping this conversation up for today, what was the one one or two most kind of profound moments that you felt alive and connected, snorkeling in a river? And what did that look and feel like to you?

01:04:01:09 - 01:04:29:13
Russ Ricketts
Well, it's like everything, you know, it's kind of like it's most of the experiences that I had when I was first starting out. It was like really exciting and fun. It's it's just wrong. Can I compare this to sex? Like, first of all, you just want, you know, to understand even, like, what is this thing? Yeah. And then want that thing.

01:04:29:13 - 01:04:53:18
Russ Ricketts
And then you have a lot of abstract ideas about what that thing is supposed to be, and then you understand it. It's a more meaningful experience. And then you, you kind of understand that it's a lot of work. And then it's not always easy to be in love with something. So when I was first snorkeling, it was really exciting.

01:04:53:20 - 01:05:21:13
Russ Ricketts
It was a tremendous, like exploration, unlimited, like anywhere I wanted to go. No one knows what that looks like down there. It changes every year, actually. You know, river changes, whatever swam here, river change is dry wind, you know, like a lot of excitement and a lot of inspiration. And I really in love and I just really wanted that.

01:05:21:15 - 01:06:07:23
Russ Ricketts
I needed it. And then it suddenly became like the realization that, like, this is a lot more of a complex thing, minimal than what I anticipated. And most of those experiences were kind of tinged with sadness. You know, like the most seminal experience that I ever had was where a Coldwater creek came into a warm river. And it was in 2015 and our rivers were like 77 degrees, fish were dying, a half million sockeye salmon just disappeared in the Columbia River in between two dams.

01:06:08:00 - 01:06:28:21
Russ Ricketts
And now every you know, there's a lot of that sturgeon after that, whatever. But I found this little Coldwater Creek in the middle of the hottest summer anyone can ever remember. And I was just floating along and all of a sudden like, Wow, look at all these fish. Whoa, whoa, whoa. There's a lot of fish. Like, there's a lot of fish here.

01:06:28:23 - 01:06:58:02
Russ Ricketts
And then I realized that this little insignificant creek was running like, almost 20 degrees colder than the river I'm swimming in. And all these fish were sheltering in this tiny form of cold water. And that to me, was like, my God. Like these fish to swim 500 miles to get here. Over seven dams impacts like innumerable things.

01:06:58:04 - 01:07:33:00
Russ Ricketts
And here they are, They made it home and then everything warmed up and there was nothing that anybody could do like any other fish that happened to be in that river in any other place probably died. But the ones that made it here are holding on. And that to me was a moment of great revelation and understanding and it was the moment when I realized that loving something is a lot more difficult.

01:07:33:02 - 01:07:56:04
Russ Ricketts
Once you finally have it, you know, I was just like, my God, Like, this is all these fish are. They could only be right here if they swim outside of this room. A cold water immediately began to go into respiratory distress and can die just from swimming over there. Same water, same river just on the other side.

01:07:56:06 - 01:08:27:00
Russ Ricketts
And so it was like snorkeling became like, whoa, hold on. I think my presence here has an effect. I'm not just some invisible Aquaman dude. Like, if I jump in there, they're all going to scatter. Go. Hell's bells to the corners. And I could kill half the school of fish if I just wanted to just go in there and just hang out and just splash around like a guy playing his Labrador retriever on the right.

01:08:27:00 - 01:08:55:01
Russ Ricketts
They could kill hundreds of fish in that kind of a situation by simply displacing from the environmental conditions that they needed to survive. Like go get a boy. You never saw the fish, right? The dogs just chasing the stick. Right. And all those fish to scatter out there and begin to immediately suffocate. And that's when it really died of the I, I'm like, holy.

01:08:55:03 - 01:09:24:16
Russ Ricketts
Like, we are in really bad shape and this is really not getting better. And we really need to treat the crisis that is salmon with a lot more urgency. And I don't have a lot of patience for agencies or politicians or leaders of any ilk that don't treat it with that same level urgency, like it's not in their spear, bro.

01:09:24:16 - 01:09:54:00
Russ Ricketts
It's just a line item that they don't understand the urgency. And that's really where I'm at at this point. Like, I don't hold a lot of faith that they're going to do the right thing, like they had a magnificent and hugely popular initiative to take down those four Snake River dams, for instance, and they chose to do everything.

01:09:54:00 - 01:10:05:06
Russ Ricketts
But I it's hard to understand like own it what's on it was tear those down but you know what I mean like let's do it. Let's see what happens.

01:10:05:08 - 01:10:22:22
Mark Titus
You bring up two incredibly strong forces here, both of which led in my own personal life to seeking recovery. And that's love and grief. Yeah. And what an incredible story. Thank you for sharing that.

01:10:22:22 - 01:10:27:16
Russ Ricketts
And it made no sense to the viewers. They were just like, this guy is the biggest rambler ever.

01:10:27:18 - 01:11:09:07
Mark Titus
I, I was with you, man. That cold flume and kind of feeling it right now. I'd like to experience that again. That kind of little bit of home water, you know, that's that salvation that you get in in that nascent needle stream. I hope that we don't have to go to a period of such grief that people finally have the will to take action like we've been talking about this entire hour.

01:11:09:09 - 01:11:30:16
Mark Titus
But between grief, love, I think that those those are the two those are the two primary emotions that are going to get us there if we have a hope at all. And thank you for elucidating that, that story, because that's what I was feeling, what you were telling it. All right. So bonus round. No one escapes the bonus round.

01:11:30:18 - 01:11:49:07
Mark Titus
And speaking of hot water, let's that's a different kind of heat. Let's say, knock on wood, that your house were on fire. You can only bring out one physical thing. What is that thing? Your kid and your wife and your critters are all.

01:11:49:08 - 01:11:51:11
Russ Ricketts
Thanks for making me not use completely.

01:11:51:11 - 01:11:57:10
Mark Titus
Thanks for safe standing on the curb. You can bring one physical thing out.

01:11:57:12 - 01:12:30:11
Russ Ricketts
I don't know. I don't. I'm remodeling right now. Okay. And when you remodel, you realize, like, how much you own. That really seemed important before you started to have to put it in the boxes and move. I don't know, man. I, I, I got everything I need already on the curb, I guess. I don't know. I don't come from a lot of means, so there's not really a lot of value in there.

01:12:30:13 - 01:12:44:06
Russ Ricketts
You know, I. I guess I need the car keys to get the car or. I don't know. I mean, what do you attaching something.

01:12:44:08 - 01:12:45:09
Mark Titus
Like, set it all, man.

01:12:45:11 - 01:12:56:01
Russ Ricketts
So, I mean, I guess. Do we have tacos? Yeah, I don't know. I mean What do you for the taco take. I don't take I.

01:12:56:03 - 01:13:10:07
Mark Titus
All right, well, let's matriculate on then to the more of the. It's just the spiritual things now to two things about you that make you. You. What are those two things that you pull out of the fire?

01:13:10:09 - 01:13:42:15
Russ Ricketts
Boy? Two things about me that make me. Me. I don't know. That's. That's tough, man, Because You've got. I think that one thing that happened this last year is that we all had our sense of self challenged and a lot of people kind of like just lived their best life in the last year. And a lot of people suffered more than they ever suffered before.

01:13:42:16 - 01:14:06:11
Russ Ricketts
And it kind of like how do you define how do you choose to define yourself? You know, like, am I my job and my my you know, my my husband and my wife and dad and my daughter or like, we're just a big hot mess, man. I think that we're all kind of just honestly, it's just we're barely all hold on there for some people do better than others.

01:14:06:11 - 01:14:40:21
Russ Ricketts
I don't know. I, I, I know that I care very deeply. And I also don't have the answers. So it's kind of a confusing thing. You know, I know that a lot of people that operate in our sphere care very deeply and I think the most important things to me are my my friendships and my family, because those are the people that I would their the thing I would take out of the fire.

01:14:40:21 - 01:15:09:07
Russ Ricketts
Like, I want to make sure that I'm coming out of the fire with like the people that I love. You know what I mean? You know, I don't know, I, I kind of am okay to admit that I'm a junk show. I don't have a script. I just image junk show. But that is okay. In a way. I Don't know.

01:15:09:09 - 01:15:13:01
Mark Titus
Is there anything you leave behind? Vanessa.

01:15:13:03 - 01:15:16:07
Russ Ricketts
Yeah.

01:15:16:09 - 01:15:18:03
Mark Titus
And what, pray tell would that be?

01:15:18:05 - 01:15:36:10
Russ Ricketts
God. Don't. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's just like when you look at it, you like we're like. We accumulate all this stuff. You know, I kind of said of Waterhouse earlier, but like, that's kind of why you accumulate all these negative and positive emotions and things and memories and all this. So like, it's all hugely questionable to be honest.

01:15:36:10 - 01:15:57:07
Russ Ricketts
Like, what is all this? Like, most of this in my house is like things that I did that I don't do anymore. Like I used to rock climb a lot. So I got like totes rock climbing gear, I got rock climbing books, I got rock climbing clothes, I got rock climbing. This, that and this and that. I mean, climb anymore.

01:15:57:08 - 01:16:25:02
Russ Ricketts
Actually, I am climbing again. But it was things that I cared about a lot at a certain time. So I gathered all this stuff up and then I, I moved on you know, and I haven't been snorkeling so much lately, but I still I'm not moving on from it. But like, my physical objects, like I see myself living a certain kind of life, and it's really hard to live that life.

01:16:25:04 - 01:16:48:19
Russ Ricketts
Like, I just want to, like, be passionate about whatever want to be passionate about. I want to be able to follow my interests. If I like if I want to show interest in weird and obscure part of the world and I want to have the freedom to do that, I think that to me is who I am most happy about doing.

01:16:48:21 - 01:17:20:01
Russ Ricketts
Like learning about the trees, learning about the birds, learning about space. You know, it was like planets stuff. The other year I was like, we learned about the constellations. Like, that's what I'm most happy to be able to be independent of any other person, just like just me. That's what I'm most happy now. I got a kid. And so, like, all that stuff is actually it turns out to be pretty on valuable when you're like, the kid looks up and goes, What's that?

01:17:20:01 - 01:17:43:06
Russ Ricketts
You're like, Well, that is Jupiter, and let's get out. This telescope that I had when I was really super into stars, I went to go look at that sucker. And you know what I mean? She's a wonderful person as well as my wife, like endlessly patient from weird hobbies and stuff like that. But really, it's just like a childlike fascination for the world.

01:17:43:06 - 01:17:58:23
Russ Ricketts
Man. I get engaged with something and pursue it with real passion, and that is about as good as you could ever hope for in life. You mean that's what I do? That's the way I roll.

01:17:59:01 - 01:18:00:20
Mark Titus
So rock climbing gear.

01:18:00:22 - 01:18:01:08
Russ Ricketts
yeah.

01:18:01:10 - 01:18:02:03
Mark Titus
That's what you love.

01:18:02:03 - 01:18:07:03
Russ Ricketts
I'm rock climbing again. Yeah. Okay. I'm fat now It's like the fat rock climbing.

01:18:07:03 - 01:18:08:06
Mark Titus
Yeah. Yeah, dude, I.

01:18:08:06 - 01:18:13:12
Russ Ricketts
See those other people on hot sand. They're just amazing, svelte and, like, little ninjas.

01:18:13:14 - 01:18:31:01
Mark Titus
Well, I'm to. I'm going to go ahead and it's not going to work. Yeah, no, it's not. And I'm going to meet you there, but I'll interject that perhaps your answer by all of this kind of to let the last year burn up in the fire. God.

01:18:31:03 - 01:18:32:21
Russ Ricketts
Some people had a good time in 2020.

01:18:32:23 - 01:18:34:10
Mark Titus
Yeah.

01:18:34:12 - 01:18:38:03
Russ Ricketts
Is it wrong to hate them for that?

01:18:38:05 - 01:18:40:21
Mark Titus
All right, buddy. All right. We're going to park it there for today.

01:18:40:21 - 01:18:42:09
Russ Ricketts
I know. You know, we've all.

01:18:42:09 - 01:18:59:06
Mark Titus
Got around to right here, but it is so cool to be able to meet in person. This feels like it's happening. Like life is happening again. I know real life is happening. And seeing you in person. The next step is to jump in the river together and can't wait to do that later this year.

01:18:59:11 - 01:19:22:23
Russ Ricketts
I'd just be happy just to see you. Right. We go swimming any time. It's is good to see you, man. To be honest, it was. Yeah. I think that we have lived through an age that we have yet to name. yeah. Like this has been something that is fundamentally changed and our we have yet to comprehend what we have experienced.

01:19:22:23 - 01:19:25:15
Mark Titus
I completely agree with you. Yeah.

01:19:25:17 - 01:19:27:07
Russ Ricketts
You have to just shut me off because I can just.

01:19:27:07 - 01:19:35:23
Mark Titus
Well, I would love for you to tell us how to follow what you're doing. How do we find you on social media? How do we get involved with the work that you're up to?

01:19:35:23 - 01:20:09:11
Russ Ricketts
Yeah, well, river snorkeling is the only account that I really do anything with, and it's river underscore snorkeling. It's not me. I just run out of my woodshed garden shed. Now I've upgraded used to be the woodshed. Now it's the garden shed, but it's just a collection of people that I support their work. You know, you do good work, get a hold of me, and I'll use this thing to push it away.

01:20:09:13 - 01:20:34:11
Russ Ricketts
It's 100% about the other person is 100% about making sure that this person whose work I'm sharing is got the mike they got the microphone and they've got the audience to do whatever they want. And that's important. It's a real bucket for for for them. There's no money in it for me, unfortunately. You know, I'm just not going to go there and there's in my way, I can't really profit off that.

01:20:34:13 - 01:20:53:00
Russ Ricketts
So that's pretty much it. That's it. This river struggling. It doesn't matter what you do, man. It doesn't matter what you do. Just go kind of, you know, live with passion. Amen, brother. There's got to be some French term for that that I just don't know. Maybe Latin, you know?

01:20:53:02 - 01:21:06:22
Mark Titus
man, I'd try it, but dummy would just laugh at me. Joy to be backwards. Yeah. All right. Russ Ricketts, great to see you, brother. And I'll meet you at the river, man. All right. See you later on down the trail.

01:21:07:01 - 01:21:11:05
Russ Ricketts
All right.

01:21:11:05 - 01:21:16:12
Music
How do you say what you love?
How do you save what you love?

01:21:23:21 - 01:21:49:19
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening to save what you love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts. You can check out photos and links from this episode at evaswild.com. While there, you can join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter, you'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way.

01:21:49:21 - 01:22:28:11
Mark Titus
That's at evaswild.com. That's the word Save spelled backwards Wild Tor.com. This episode was produced by Tyler White and edited by Patrick Troll. Original music was created by Whiskey Class. This podcast is a collaboration between Ava's Wild Stories and Salmon Nation and was recorded on the homelands of the Duwamish. People. We'd like to recognize these lands and waters and their significance for the people who lived and continued to live in this region whose practices and spiritualities were and are tied to the land in the water, and whose lives continue to enrich and develop in relationship to the land waters and other inhabitants today.