Save What You Love with Mark Titus

00:00:00:08 - 00:00:27:11
Mark Titus
Welcome to Say what you love. I'm Mark Titus. We're at the end of 2021. Can you believe it? Well, here we are. And it's been quite a ride. And I'll tell you, there's a lot to be grateful for. One of the main things I'm grateful for is this show and the continued opportunity to tell stories and to listen to other people's stories about how they're protecting the things they love.

00:00:27:13 - 00:00:48:13
Mark Titus
On today's episode, I get to interview you, Nanci Morris Lyon. Nanci is a really dear friend of mine, has been taking care of me and helping me produce the two documentaries that I've done since 2012 The Breach and the Wild. Every time I've gone up to film in Bristol Bay, Nanci's found a place for me to stay. Could it be a broom closet?

00:00:48:13 - 00:01:12:22
Mark Titus
It could be out in a yard on her property at Bear Trail Lodge. But she's always found a meal and a place for me to crash when I needed a roof over my head while filming. Nanci is a really spectacular human being and also is a trailblazer. Nanci owns and operates Bear Trail Lodge, which is in King Salmon, Alaska, in Bristol Bay with her husband, Heath, and her daughter, Riley.

00:01:13:00 - 00:01:37:14
Mark Titus
And today, we talk about her path to how she's gotten here, the fight she's been in for decades now to preserve Bristol Bay and how she's planning on passing this on to the next generation. Couple quick housekeeping notes. This will be the last episode for 2021. Can't wait to see you again in 2022. We're got a lot of things to look forward to, including new premiere content and some new projects that I'm excited to tell you about.

00:01:37:14 - 00:02:00:08
Mark Titus
As we get into the new Year. If you want to support the show, the best way you can do that is if you listen to us on Apple Podcasts, give us a rating and give us a review in your own words. It really helps to increase the visibility of the program. Also, consider getting a subscription to Wild Salmon delivered to your door through Eva's Wild every month or every other month for every quarter.

00:02:00:10 - 00:02:17:15
Mark Titus
It really helps to support the show and to produce it and to put in the hours and get this thing out to the world. In the meantime, I hope you have wonderful holidays with your family and your friends and your loved ones. And we will see you in 2022. See you down the trail.

00:02:17:17 - 00:02:54:01
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:02:54:03 - 00:02:58:02
Mark Titus
Nanci Morris Lyon, welcome. Where are you coming to us from today?

00:02:58:04 - 00:03:09:12
Nanci Morris Lyon
Thanks. Thanks. I'm coming to you from beautiful downtown. Well, the outskirts of downtown King Salmon, Alaska, where a blizzard is trying very hard to form outside my window.

00:03:09:14 - 00:03:16:18
Mark Titus
Yeah, I've heard. It's been cold and and somewhat inclement here in the last month and a half or so.

00:03:16:20 - 00:03:33:17
Nanci Morris Lyon
Cold doesn't even quite capture what it's been like for the last month. It has been we had at least a three week period there that I think our the highest we got was three degrees. I think that that was our ultimate high for three weeks. And then we had a break with a blizzard and got cold a couple of more days and now we're trying to have another blizzard.

00:03:33:17 - 00:03:49:16
Nanci Morris Lyon
So it's actually fairly warm outside. But I do laugh at the post office. I ran into one of my friends just a couple of days ago and we were both in our raincoats instead of winter gear out in the blizzard because it felt so good to be in 26 degree weather versus -26 degree weather.

00:03:49:18 - 00:04:21:06
Mark Titus
Isn't that the truth? It's everything. Everything is relative. And for our Canadian listeners, that is three degrees Fahrenheit. That that Nanci was was referring to there. So, yeah, it gets cold. I've been there. I don't think it's been that cold when I visited you in the winter. But yeah it does it does get there and I just remember actually one of my most beautiful memories of being at your place in the winter is the ice crystals that form on the sliding glass door outside of the kitchen that face the east.

00:04:21:08 - 00:04:36:20
Mark Titus
So when the sun rises, just comes up. It just lights them all up, just like jewels. And it's just so beautiful. In fact, out. I'll dig up that photograph. I'll put it up in the show notes. It's so beautiful up there in the winter. Different. It's a totally different esthetic than being there in the summer, but it's gorgeous.

00:04:36:22 - 00:04:53:11
Nanci Morris Lyon
yeah, 100% different. And it is crazy. It's funny that you would mention that because I don't I walk back and forth to work, which is a little over a mile and a half. And one of the things I enjoy most about the cold weather is all the crystals that are sparkling in the moonlight or the sunlight, depending on what time of day I walk in.

00:04:53:11 - 00:04:55:19
Nanci Morris Lyon
But it absolutely is stunning.

00:04:55:21 - 00:05:17:18
Mark Titus
It's part of the enchantment and the draw to the wild and definitely Bristol Bay. Well, let's let's dig into this. I you know, to start these episodes off, I really just love to open it up to you. I'd love to hear in your own words, tell us your story. Where did you come from and how did you come into this work that you do?

00:05:17:19 - 00:05:37:11
Nanci Morris Lyon
Well, you know, I have an unusual story like most Alaskans do. I'm actually a farm girl, came out of a really small town out of eastern Washington, was born and raised on a horse and a working farm where we milked our own cows and we raised our own chickens and we butchered our own pigs and had our own beef.

00:05:37:11 - 00:06:02:18
Nanci Morris Lyon
And I moved sprinklers and my dad loved to fish and my dad took me fishing with my two brothers all the time. And I think that that basically placed the seed in me that turned into something much, much larger and turned me into a fishing addict and a younger brother that came up here to Alaska out of his sense of adventure and told me, my gosh, you need to come up here and see this place.

00:06:02:18 - 00:06:25:12
Nanci Morris Lyon
Nanci, It's unbelievable. So fresh out of college, I had a great job managing a veterinary clinic. I have a degree in veterinary medicine, and I came up here and fell in love with the place called the Doctors that own the place up and said, hey, I'm sorry, but I'm putting in my resignation to Alaska. And so basically that that is the short story for how I got here.

00:06:25:12 - 00:06:45:03
Nanci Morris Lyon
And that didn't take me long to discover Bristol Bay and not fall equally in love with it. And I have seen it through through. Well, this is, I think, my 37th year out here. And so I've seen a lot of changes. But Bristol Bay is still Bristol Bay. And what makes it so magical is its cycle of life.

00:06:45:03 - 00:06:48:18
Nanci Morris Lyon
And might sound cliche, but it's the truth.

00:06:48:20 - 00:07:17:07
Mark Titus
You know, it's really resonant to me. I did a TED talk a while back, back in 2018, and what it was really grounded in was the memory of being with my dad and my brother and that that connection not only through them but to the land. And, you know, you've caught a lot of fish, you've set records, but the ones you remember and cherish the most aren't always the biggest fish.

00:07:17:07 - 00:07:31:20
Mark Titus
I know. That's the case for me. Can you tell us about one or two of your favorite days on the river with with anybody you're a client or your family or, you know, what's what are some of the most memorable days you've ever had?

00:07:31:22 - 00:08:09:12
Nanci Morris Lyon
Well, they both are probably not surprising to most mothers out there would revolve around my daughter, who has also become a fishing guide for our organization. And she is actually now assisting me in running the organization. As she's finishing her final year in college. She'll have her master's in business in accounting with her CPA license and the first ones that I remember are her bundling her up this time of year when the water opened up at the upper end of the river and taking her out, there always was snacks, had to be snacks to keep her occupied and helping her to catch her first 30 inch fish.

00:08:09:14 - 00:08:34:02
Nanci Morris Lyon
And that fish was caught for her in about January, which is, I know a crazy time of year. And it was just a warm spot in the in the time. And she was probably about four years old, which absolutely has probably spoiled her for life. But she does still appreciate 30 inch fish and the look on her face and her little fingers touching that fish and the little smile.

00:08:34:04 - 00:08:54:06
Nanci Morris Lyon
And she was, you know, well, I mean, that's my fish. And it just you can't even put into words what that does for your heart when you are somebody who also appreciates, you know, what God has put in the water in front of you and and what magical moments it can create for you. So that that is my first one.

00:08:54:08 - 00:09:21:00
Nanci Morris Lyon
And my second one is when she had learned how to fly fish and she had gone through my guide academy and knew how to tie her own flies. She had a fly on and all three of us, actually my husband, Heath, her dad and myself and her were all out fishing in the fall. It was very late in the fall and she cast her fly and hooked into her 30 and fish.

00:09:21:03 - 00:09:53:16
Nanci Morris Lyon
First one she caught on a fly that she died and landed it in. I believe she was 13 or 14 then. I remember she was still in braces. So I guess I don't. But I've got that picture hanging in my office and I truly cherish it because the look on her face and the pride and the connection that I already realize she also had to the same pieces of water in Bristol Bay that I have just explodes your mind and your heart and and those have got to be some of the most outstanding memories I have.

00:09:53:18 - 00:10:17:00
Mark Titus
It's that word connection, you know, it's it's to the land, it's to the fish. It's to each other. That which is bigger than ourselves. I mean, I think ultimately that's that's why I get out. That's why I do this. You know, I was just yesterday, I went out to the Snoqualmie River. It's my usual haunt here in in Lower 48 in Washington State.

00:10:17:02 - 00:10:38:22
Mark Titus
And just to practice spear casting. And it was snowing to beat the band standing in the middle of a river. God knows it's only a little bit above freezing itself and, you know, some folks think that's nuts. And for me, it was just the hiss of the snow on the water and the connection. That line going out over the water.

00:10:38:22 - 00:11:05:23
Mark Titus
And just you know, in this case, I was just practicing. But it's still just to get that connection to the river, to the land. And I think that's why we go out and do these things. Now. I want to clarify one more thing. You're talking about a 30 inch fish that's a 30 inch native rainbow trout. You know, for our listeners who are used to, you know, high mountain streams are going out.

00:11:05:23 - 00:11:28:02
Mark Titus
And if you get a 14 inch cutthroat or 14 inch rainbow, that's a good day. This is this is unbelievable. Can you talk about the fecundity of Bristol Bay? Why these fish get as big as they do? Why does this system work so beautifully and why is it such a magical place?

00:11:28:04 - 00:11:49:20
Nanci Morris Lyon
you know, this place is. I don't even hardly know where to start. I'll start from the beginning. We've had people in this bay living here for so many years that really cared for the area and for the streams and for the animals and for everything that makes Bristol Bay, Bristol Bay and they have taken really, really good care of it.

00:11:49:20 - 00:12:19:16
Nanci Morris Lyon
And they've done so by leaving it alone, by taking what they need, by protecting what they know they are going to need in the future. And so my first thanks go out to the indigenous peoples of Bristol Bay. And Bristol Bay itself is just a truly a miracle of God. He he made a perfect place out here. He made a place where baby salmon can grow and return to the sea and then come back and feed us again.

00:12:19:18 - 00:12:57:13
Nanci Morris Lyon
And in the meantime, they also feed our wildlife and everything around us. He made a place that was huge in full enough of water in inhospitable enough not to be highly and quickly populated so that we have a place of peace and clean air and clean water around us. And what ends up happening is all those comes together and allows freshwater species like these rainbow trout that can get enormous in these streams to feed and feast off a super high protein meals pretty much year round, something they cannot get any place else on earth without the assistance of man.

00:12:57:15 - 00:13:11:10
Nanci Morris Lyon
And it all just fits together like a not 100 piece puzzle, but more like a 15,000 piece puzzle. And you don't want to remove a piece because if you do, you risk something, something major.

00:13:11:12 - 00:13:32:04
Mark Titus
Well, that's the case. You know, we're going to it's a perfect segue way to get into the the proposed Pebble Mine discussion. You know, this is a this is a fight that's been going on for decades. You have been a giant warrior in this fight. If you've listened to this show before, you know, we talk about this frequently.

00:13:32:06 - 00:14:04:17
Mark Titus
This is a fight to protect Bristol Bay from the development of what would be North America's largest open pit, gold, copper and molybdenum mine. Nanci, you've been right in the middle of this thing. And I'd like to just ask you from your perspective, what is that fight been like to be in as somebody whose livelihood is completely dependent on this place and somebody who is in in reverence and in connection with this place on a deeper on a spiritual level as well?

00:14:04:19 - 00:14:09:23
Mark Titus
Can you tell us what that's been like and what keeps you going?

00:14:10:00 - 00:14:39:20
Nanci Morris Lyon
absolutely. I have vowed to fight this fight until my grave, until the good Lord calls me home. And I guess to put it in words to me, it's just like somebody trying to rip my child out of my hands. It's somebody who is thoughtless, who has an endgame in mind that has nothing to do with the land or with what remains behind.

00:14:39:22 - 00:15:04:22
Nanci Morris Lyon
And it's cruel and it's it's just not going to happen on my watch. I'm not going down without a fight. It has been exhausting. It has been tiring. It has been also creating. It has been all kinds of really negative things. But on the other side, I've also created friendships. Even with you, my friend. I'm not sure that our paths would have crossed without this fight.

00:15:05:00 - 00:15:06:08
Nanci Morris Lyon
It has brought.

00:15:06:10 - 00:15:07:12
Mark Titus
Exactly.

00:15:07:13 - 00:15:32:12
Nanci Morris Lyon
Yeah, it's brought people enemies together. Enemies That might be kind of a strong word, but the commercial fishermen and the sport fishermen in Bristol Bay did not spend a lot of time together or find much use for each other until this fight occurred. It has done good things. It has it has given us false hope at times. And now we feel more certain.

00:15:32:12 - 00:15:56:06
Nanci Morris Lyon
I mean, we're very, very energized by what has happened recently and we're very, very hopeful that things will continue on this path or that at least we can see this path through to the end to make it a completion. And that's right Now that's where we're at, where we want to be hopeful, but we're not ready to give up the fight to make sure that things become permanent.

00:15:56:08 - 00:16:23:18
Mark Titus
Yeah, I want to keep an eye on two things that you've said here previously. One was I love the the puzzle pieces that you were talking about, the mosaic and just removing one has cascading effects on the rest of the picture that you're looking at. And to talk about that union between folks that have been adversarial to this point, I think that it's a unique situation.

00:16:23:20 - 00:16:46:10
Mark Titus
It's certainly been the case down here and continues to be the case. I mean, you know, you've probably heard the steel head populations have been just cratered at an all time low. And folks, you know, want to find someone to blame. They want to the commercial fishermen want to blame the sport fishermen. The sport fishermen blame the tribes.

00:16:46:10 - 00:17:17:09
Mark Titus
The tribes are, you know, have been getting the hose for that, you know, since white folks came onto this land. And in Bristol Bay's case, people, as you said, have come together to see the big picture and to see that if if it remains the same, if we can come together despite our differences and keep this land, this landscape, this mosaic, this puzzle piece put in completion, it will still yield for us.

00:17:17:09 - 00:17:37:19
Mark Titus
It will continue to in perpetuity this incredible abundance. So my question to you is, do you think that this, you know, sort of fragile truce as it were, or this coming together of disparate voices can continue on? And do you think that this is a model.

00:17:37:21 - 00:17:38:10
Nanci Morris Lyon
I do for.

00:17:38:10 - 00:17:40:04
Mark Titus
Moving forward on other hard issues like that?

00:17:40:04 - 00:18:01:19
Nanci Morris Lyon
I think, you know, I think you put it together very well by using the word model. I think that that it's created a model for us. And I absolutely think it will continue moving forward. I don't know how many generations it will last. You know, that's always the unknown, so to speak. And it's not controlled by us. It's something that the good Lord will be looking out for on his own.

00:18:01:19 - 00:18:35:10
Nanci Morris Lyon
But it has it has created, I think, all of us, in all of us, a deeper realization of the biosphere that's out here and how fragile its very existence can be. We never imagined anything like this would attack us or try to rip what we have out of our hands so easily, which really it feels that way. And I think it created an awareness in all of us that we have more in common than we do indifference.

00:18:35:10 - 00:18:55:14
Nanci Morris Lyon
And I do see this lasting well into the future. And I think that our lands will be better off for it well into the future. Also, because of this fight, you have generations now involved. My daughter has never not known Pebble Mine to be around, and that's a really sad thing to say. She's 22 years old now. I'd be 23 in March.

00:18:55:16 - 00:19:19:10
Nanci Morris Lyon
And think about that. I mean, she's she never has. No. Not to have the threat of Pebble possibly potentially now collapsing the business that she plans to take over for me, she's never known not to have to go to fights or go to visit our senators offices in Washington, D.C., or down in Juneau to let people know how important this place is.

00:19:19:12 - 00:19:48:14
Nanci Morris Lyon
I just I can hardly wait for the day when she can breathe easier and know that that energy can be put towards something positive and working hand in hand with others to protect and create better ways to protect this place that we all know and love. So it is it has done some really, really positive things in our area that I think others could learn from, and I would encourage others to learn from them because it's not a lesson we would have learned without this nasty fight.

00:19:48:16 - 00:20:19:06
Mark Titus
I want to ask you about the relationship with with the Alaska delegation in Alaska's leadership in a second. But to kind of cap off this thought, I want to go back to the puzzle piece again. A lot of people, when they familiarize themselves with the fight in Bristol Bay to the proposed Pebble Mine, they go kind of immediately to the nuclear option of a catastrophic tailings dam failure.

00:20:19:07 - 00:21:00:10
Mark Titus
And and honestly, as you know, over the course of making two films and featuring this fight in both of those films, the mining company, those folks seemed to want to steer you towards that picture and then talk to you about the relative relatively small chance of that happening, because you know that that can be a truth. But the puzzle piece, that's what is much more interesting to me and I think is much more makes this much more sensitive and an incredibly, really powerful we've watched the systems degrade down here in the lower 48.

00:21:00:12 - 00:21:31:22
Mark Titus
And and it's been because infrastructure has been put into salmon bearing systems. And each time that's happened, whether it's to extract gold or to log or to ranch or whatever it is, whatever the human or to overfishing it, every time that that's happened, every time that human infrastructures come in, it has been a 100% certainty that that system, all the systems down here have are going to fail or going to deplete rapidly.

00:21:32:00 - 00:22:03:06
Mark Titus
You've seen you've had a foot in both sides of this, both in the lower 48 and in in Bristol Bay and in Alaska. Can you just paint a little bit of a more complete picture for us about what we're talking about versus, you know, hatcheries? And, you know, insanely anemic quotas because they have to be in they should be down here versus what exists because of the entirety of the pristine nature of Bristol Bay.

00:22:03:08 - 00:22:30:21
Nanci Morris Lyon
Yeah, absolutely. You know, Mark, one of the most prolific or profound things that was ever said to me was so simple. And most people, it goes right by them. But we were flying out on to one of our fly out streams to go fish for the day. And the visitor, my guest sitting next to me, looked out the window and said, You know what's amazing about Alaska is not so much what you do see, but what you don't see.

00:22:30:23 - 00:23:18:21
Nanci Morris Lyon
And if you really let that sink into your brain, you think no roads, no buildings, no electrical lines, no paths, no markers, no monuments, no there's nothing. There's nothing but nature in what she contains. And the more you think about that, the more you understand what depth that has. And that's exactly where we're at right now. We still live in a time where we don't have those things in Bristol Bay in order to create a mine the size that pebble would need to create in order to make it profitable, it would not only need the basic things that you can think of, such as roads and buildings and stores and communities and laundry facilities and

00:23:18:21 - 00:23:44:12
Nanci Morris Lyon
things like that to support it. It's also going to need a way to extract that material and move it out of here. It's going to have to move so much Earth that it would be the biggest open pit mine that we've ever seen. Now you're going to take from the saying I originally gave you, it's what you don't see and you're going to turn it into that.

00:23:44:14 - 00:24:16:15
Nanci Morris Lyon
Now, that is not a small puzzle piece. That is not one puzzle piece that that is not even talking about anything catastrophic happening. What happens before the catastrophe happens is probably even going to harm what we have here more than what the catastrophe is going to. So you've got to kind of put everything in place with just the building of the electrical facility that would be required alone is hugely problematic for our ecosystem.

00:24:16:17 - 00:24:21:21
Nanci Morris Lyon
And the power it's going to take is just megatons.

00:24:21:23 - 00:24:51:10
Mark Titus
And I love the line in the Wild documentary you're in. And my second documentary that Rick Alford says about and even if you've got 2.01% error rate, you know, for a catastrophic failure or a systemic failure in a mining operation like this that would pollute and poison the rest of the land and the the river systems, if this this thing would have to be taken care of forever in perpetuity.

00:24:51:12 - 00:25:26:12
Mark Titus
So if you've got 2.01% error rate into times perpetuity, you're going to have an error period. It's going to happen. But in the meantime, just like you said, you are absolutely 100% changing the character, The the the soul of this place by turning it from a wilderness, a rare wilderness salmon making machine into a a mining district. So, you know, I know that Alaskan leadership consults with you regularly.

00:25:26:14 - 00:25:33:19
Mark Titus
Can you tell me where Alaska senators are in the fight for Bristol Bay's permanent protection at this point in time?

00:25:33:21 - 00:26:01:15
Nanci Morris Lyon
Yeah, I'm actually very encouraged by both Senator Murkowski and Senator Sullivan's support for moving putting something in place that will permanently allow Bristol Bay to be protected and I'm not privy I haven't had a conversation with them very recently about exactly where they're headed with it, but they are ready to take congressional action once the proper how do I say it?

00:26:01:15 - 00:26:21:14
Nanci Morris Lyon
But what if the words are properly on the page? Things will be brought forward and I'm so glad. I just can't thank both of them enough for their efforts in recognizing the need to put this away and to make sure that Bristol Bay is looked out for in a proper and meaningful way well into the future.

00:26:21:16 - 00:26:44:12
Mark Titus
You know that. Yeah. I can't can't echo that enough thank you to both of them for their leadership in it. And it's you know, it is definitely time to get this thing done. President Biden made a promise during the course of his presidential run that he would see this thing through. And I think it's up to us, all of us, now, to hold those folks accountable.

00:26:44:14 - 00:27:11:12
Mark Titus
So, yeah, I again, gratitude to keep this thing moving forward. And then let's keep the the foot on the pedal. I want to go back to kind of the big picture here for a second about this connection to place and this love and devotion to place. Do you believe? Do you feel that developing a love and devotion to place brings purpose and resilience to individuals and communities?

00:27:11:12 - 00:27:33:23
Mark Titus
Can can this kind of heart space, this love for, for place and for wildness push us forward in in these really big challenges that we face with climate change and economic insecurity. And based on your experience in Bristol Bay.

00:27:34:01 - 00:28:02:17
Nanci Morris Lyon
I think it's helpful. And I think I think challenges like the Pebble Mine has brought on for us help us to recognize them more. I don't think I mean, I'm the perfect example of someone who looks back on my own life and my own thought process as to how I got here and where I am today. I did not used to appreciate what I had around me and what I loved to my very soul and my very core.

00:28:02:17 - 00:28:30:08
Nanci Morris Lyon
I didn't recognize that until somebody tried to take it away. So I think I think it does bring us together. But I think also sometimes, unfortunately, we need some really negative triggers for us to recognize what we find so worthwhile and worth fighting for. And I think it brings people together in ways that are surprising because we don't even realize perhaps, that we share those common grounds until until something bad happens.

00:28:30:08 - 00:28:40:14
Nanci Morris Lyon
And shame on us for that. We need we need to be better at recognizing the important things in life, in the priorities in our life, and setting aside the things that really don't carry that much weight.

00:28:40:16 - 00:29:08:07
Mark Titus
You know, Eamon and you I was a guide for a decade. You do this all the time. You interact with your clients both as a guide and as the lodge owner. And that's that takes a certain skill set. But I bet you I know for myself that I've spent lots of times in boats with folks that are not of the same social or political orientation as me.

00:29:08:07 - 00:29:38:13
Mark Titus
And guess what? We we managed to find a way to have a good time because for in the middle of the most beautiful place on the planet, given the device of ness of what we're going through in the United States, despite these political and social differences, from your point of view, where do we begin healing our wounds and coming together to survive and thrive here in this country?

00:29:38:15 - 00:29:55:18
Nanci Morris Lyon
well, you already said it in the boat. You got to be on the water. You get on the water and there's always common ground. It's a great way for people to set aside differences. You don't bring them to the water with you. It's just not natural. So you don't do it. Instead, you go out there trying to achieve a common goal.

00:29:55:22 - 00:30:23:21
Nanci Morris Lyon
So maybe if you want to take it off the water, that's exactly it. Find common goals. There's common ground for all of us. There are ways for us to get around arguments. Nobody needs to have stranglehold on anybody. It's nonproductive. And instead of searching for a way to prove you're better or right or more important, let's look for ground that leads to a path that everyone can take, because that's the only way a path gets made.

00:30:23:21 - 00:30:29:01
Nanci Morris Lyon
Otherwise, all you're going to do is dig a hole that's so deep, it's pretty tough to get a path out of.

00:30:29:03 - 00:31:05:07
Mark Titus
Yeah, agreed. You know, as you and I have talked about a bunch over the last couple of years, we we kind of took a gamble on including the storyline that you, you narrated in the film about guiding Donald Trump Jr and his son. So the former president's son and grandson. And we decided, you know, for the very same reason I think to as including my story about recovery, mostly because it was true it was that it was that's what happened.

00:31:05:07 - 00:31:30:19
Mark Titus
And that was a big part of your story as a large donor, as a person who is paving the way toward, I don't know, a deeper sense of equity to include all the voices and we got a lot of crap for that. You know, some folks on the left were were just like, why? How dare you sully this story by including this person's name?

00:31:30:21 - 00:31:54:17
Mark Titus
And at the end of the day, it proved to be, I think, a worthwhile endeavor. I mean, donald trump jr. Sent out a tweet that to a lot of people, surprise was in agreement with Jane fonda's voice on protecting bristol bay. The need to protect Bristol bay. You know, there was headlines about jane fonda and donald trump jr.

00:31:54:17 - 00:32:28:12
Mark Titus
Agree on something. The world is coming to an end. Look, you know, I was just so proud of you for telling that story and and for, you know, really stand by the the experiential reality of that which was you had a good time. You were proud of taking him and his grandson out. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, that experience and what you witnessed in a, you know, maybe a transformational sense when folks of that ilk come up and come fish with, you.

00:32:28:14 - 00:32:56:02
Nanci Morris Lyon
Know, you know, I love those opportunities. And and that's the whole thing with it. I am not swayed a whole lot by names. You exchange the name Trump for Smith, and I'm just talking about another client who's going out with me. They have the same goals and desires. And for me to be able to take somebody out that has influence your powers is really a treat because this is my home, this is my back yard.

00:32:56:04 - 00:33:27:06
Nanci Morris Lyon
And I love teaching them about how special this place is because it doesn't take a whole lot of effort on my part. All I have to do is point out a few things and it's pretty obvious all on its own. And Donald Trump and his son both are really have a very, very strong appreciation for wilderness, for working ecosystems, for for really everything Bristol Bay is they are true sportsmen, and that's all it really takes as a true sportsman to come out here.

00:33:27:08 - 00:33:51:05
Nanci Morris Lyon
And I can definitely introduce you to 200 reasons why Bristol Bay needs to be left alone, and because they're people with those same interests, it didn't take a whole lot. So I don't want to I, I don't feel like I need to be given any credit for that. I just happened to be the place that they ended up coming to so that I could introduce them to what is already here.

00:33:51:05 - 00:33:54:21
Nanci Morris Lyon
And it's something that I really enjoy doing.

00:33:54:23 - 00:34:25:22
Mark Titus
So, you know, attached to that was, I think, a broader support base from the Sportsmen and Women Coalition or folks that are involved with fishing and hunting. I think, you know, during that time or shortly thereafter when when Donald Jr came out with the tweet, Tucker Carlson on Fox News had a seven minute segment about Bristol Bay and included the voice of Johnny Morris, who's the CEO of Bass Pro Shops.

00:34:26:00 - 00:34:53:12
Mark Titus
You know, this was kind of mind exploding sort of stuff. First of all, 7 minutes on Bristol Bay, period. And from a conservative news source and all of this kind of stuff led coalesced to a moment in time where last year, a year ago, just just over a year ago now, the Army Corps of Engineers decided to disallow Pebble from getting a dredge infill permit.

00:34:53:14 - 00:35:20:23
Mark Titus
So you just never know where this support's to come from. And in this case, it really was from a conservative group of outdoorsy folks. Given that understanding, there's a lot of power in that in that, you know, this industry has a it's a big industry. And I would just want to pivot the dial here a little bit. You're a record holding, groundbreaking, pioneering person in this industry.

00:35:20:23 - 00:35:52:14
Mark Titus
As a woman, I've seen your amazing records on the wall. What's it been like for you to get into this industry as a as a woman and to, you know, kick down the obstacles in front of you? And what advice do you have for up and coming young women? I mean, your daughters, one of them who who are coming into this industry, this outdoors industry, and what what can you tell them to help them keep going and continue continue on their way?

00:35:52:16 - 00:36:16:01
Nanci Morris Lyon
yeah. Thanks. I, I was I was going to chuckle out of it because I just have the right personality for it. That's all there is to it. I, I never looked at anybody putting a blockade in front of me as anything other than a challenge, and I can't walk away from a challenge. So I just kicked through the blockades and kept moving forward and and I did it for selfish reasons as much as anything.

00:36:16:01 - 00:36:51:01
Nanci Morris Lyon
I loved what I did. I loved being in the outdoors. I loved introducing people to fishing and catching fish and Bristol Bay in general and I am really proud of how many women guides we have out here now. And I I'm glad that most of them I was able to mentor and those that have come along since I applaud them from afar and don't give up, you know, especially in the fishing industry, there is no reason why a woman cannot succeed is equally and is easily as a man can.

00:36:51:01 - 00:37:17:04
Nanci Morris Lyon
The only thing between you and success is your mind. So just go do it. You know, there's there is no feat of strength that's necessary. That requires you to be a man in order to be able to to fully realize. I mean, I'm the perfect example. I would just a fishing guide in Bristol Bay. I came out here like anybody else in neoprene waders back then.

00:37:17:04 - 00:37:41:06
Nanci Morris Lyon
And, you know, with high hopes and dreams. And I know I own a large I can't even believe where it has got me. And I'm very, very grateful to this land and this opportunity that this profession has given me. And there's it is still dominated by men, but only until enough women who love the outdoors and nature step up and make it their equal.

00:37:41:06 - 00:37:52:17
Nanci Morris Lyon
So it's getting there. And I'm I am again, the only thing between you and success is your mind. So just go for it. You can do it and you will do it.

00:37:52:19 - 00:38:22:11
Mark Titus
You know, I guess just coming from it as a guide who had to learn, start at the bottom and learn the area and learn all the techniques and do the, you know, work, work my way up the ranks. It had a certain amount of labor to it. Some luck. But, you know, I would imagine that there are still some difficult barriers for women to get involved in this.

00:38:22:13 - 00:38:49:20
Mark Titus
Have you? You know, it's a it's a little different story, I think, at your lodge. But if you were able to identify any of those things, what would you say those things are? And do you feel like it's it's changing now in 2021, acceptance and promotion of women in this industry? And do you feel like there are things that we can do to even smooth the road and enhance the road a little bit further?

00:38:49:20 - 00:38:53:22
Mark Titus
Giving more women opportunity to thrive in this industry?

00:38:54:00 - 00:39:20:02
Nanci Morris Lyon
You know, there are still some some rough corners and some rough patches for it, but I feel like the industry itself is kind of demanding it. I mean, I look back on it and when I see that has happened is I see people realized that before my competitors lodges filled with couples and females minded because they felt more comfortable with the woman in the field.

00:39:20:04 - 00:39:37:13
Nanci Morris Lyon
I've had a lot of people that have come to me for that very reason. Whether it's a guy saying, I've got my wife or girlfriend and she's going to feel a lot more comfortable to learn how to fish from you than from me or another guy. Guide Can you do this? And I'm absolutely so the industry is pushing it.

00:39:37:13 - 00:40:02:01
Nanci Morris Lyon
I look around me now and there's a good number of female guides and a good number of different lodges in the area. I think the things that still tend not to have that happening at them are places that perhaps, you know, there are situations with like all male dormitories or things like that where you do have to have some consideration.

00:40:02:03 - 00:40:32:11
Nanci Morris Lyon
And unfortunately I do counsel all the girls who come to me and are interested finding an operation to make sure and truly interview who they're thinking about working for and that thoroughly because there are still situations you do not want to get yourself put in a lodge in the middle of nowhere where there's no way out and then get in a bad situation and certainly those unfortunately do still exist and I wish they didn't.

00:40:32:13 - 00:40:56:22
Nanci Morris Lyon
But that, you know, there there does still have to be wisdom taken before that leap is taken. And, you know, those that that come into it with an open mind and determination, you are going to succeed because you are loved out there. And I'll tell you what, right now it is exploding. I think a lot of it has to do with the big old coronavirus making people want to get out of their houses.

00:40:56:22 - 00:41:15:22
Nanci Morris Lyon
But people want fresh air. They want to see what we've all been in love with for years. They want to find out what mystery is out there that draws us back so many times and for so long. And it's a perfect time for women to get their feet wet and step in.

00:41:16:00 - 00:41:44:16
Mark Titus
You know, you're you're such a mentor. And to me and to so many people and you know, what a gift. What a gift. Your your courage and your pioneering in this field has been. One last thing I want to touch about this specifically is the Bristol Bay Guide Academy. You're a co-founder of that. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is and what you've been able to achieve since its inception?

00:41:44:18 - 00:42:06:19
Nanci Morris Lyon
absolutely. You know, after my own Heart march, you know how fond I am of this project and how I'm just overwhelmed with the success we have seen out of it. Never expected anything like this in my life. I had a vision of the young people in this Bristol Bay area down south of here, up north of here, west and east, all areas of Bristol Bay.

00:42:06:19 - 00:42:45:15
Nanci Morris Lyon
And I saw a huge resource that nobody was taking advantage of. There were no native guides here. There were no opportunities for them to be working at lodges, or most of them were commercial or subsistence fishermen. A few of them poked out it a few times a year, but not really in depth. And I just thought to myself, Wow, if we could bring visitors into this area and have people who were born and raised here who know this land like the back of their hand, who have their ancestral stories that they can share with our visitors, who have you know, they know what happens here in January when nobody else does.

00:42:45:17 - 00:43:15:11
Nanci Morris Lyon
Wouldn't that be something to take these kids that have a really, really difficult time leaving these villages after they're in a class of anywhere from 1 to 7 people and send them into college has not been a big success story. It's very difficult for them to get used to bigger towns and and bigger things and, you know, being self-determined enough to to get an education so it can tend to lead to failure unless you don't have the right person on its way.

00:43:15:13 - 00:43:45:02
Nanci Morris Lyon
And so then you end up with them back in the communities again, possibly getting into trouble or not, you not not having a future that's worth looking forward to. And I started the Bristol Bay Guide Academy. For this reason it has flourished. We We take 12 to 16 kids a year. We teach them how to fly fish, tie flies, tie knots to make their own leaders customer service, how a lodge is run.

00:43:45:04 - 00:44:08:07
Nanci Morris Lyon
We teach them everything they need to succeed as a guide in Bristol Bay and then at the end of the week, their final exam is real and we bring in guests and they have to take them out and catch them a fish and the catching the fish isn't as important as teaching them how to fish and teaching them how to treat somebody who's visiting Bristol Bay.

00:44:08:09 - 00:44:37:16
Nanci Morris Lyon
And it is it's just so rewarding. I can't every year it's just talk about a recharge for your battery. That's what it does for me. And these kids have. Well, I've got a lot of work and it's large right now of the graduates that have gone on to become guides in the area, and they're the best. They're easily my most requested guides on staff above and beyond the guy who's been guide for 25 years all over the world.

00:44:37:18 - 00:45:02:18
Nanci Morris Lyon
Not that he's a bad fisherman or a bad person, but he doesn't have the stories. He doesn't have the Bristol Bay in his blood like my guides that come from here do, and they're as well. They're getting jobs at other lodges as well. It's just it's so rewarding to see. And it's it's truly turned into like the golden crown, the golden gem and my crown for for my legacy in Bristol Bay.

00:45:02:18 - 00:45:11:13
Nanci Morris Lyon
And I'm really, really proud of everybody who's participated in it. And just hope I just hope it continues well into the future.

00:45:11:15 - 00:45:39:14
Mark Titus
Yeah, it's so cool. I mean, what a what a profound thing to say, but that's I'm just kind of speechless about this. I fished with Reuben, who was in the first class, I think, of the Bristol Bay Guy Academy of Fish with Jack Official Trystan. You know, I know. And I consider these folks friends now and have spent time with them.

00:45:39:14 - 00:46:11:16
Mark Titus
And I completely understand what you're saying. I want to go back and hang out with these folks. I feel like they are they are the the true stewards of of this place and in empowering folks that are from generations upon generations upon generations ago that that in their bones know the land is just the smartest thing I can think of for all of the reasons, you know, socially, economically, culturally.

00:46:11:17 - 00:46:41:17
Mark Titus
And just as a business, it makes the most sense. You you you've really you and I know Lukaku KOC was in the beginning and Tim Troll and O'Brien Kraft was involved. It's just such a fantastic legacy to to the future. Riley your daughter was part of it and and what is at stake at Bristol Bay and passing the torch to the next generation of folks who really, really are in it for the right reasons.

00:46:41:17 - 00:47:10:01
Mark Titus
And that's going to lead me to my last question for you today. The before the bonus round, which is how how important is to you personally, to Nanci, is is a reverence for the wild as a cornerstone in the work that you do and that you have created and devoted your life to you know.

00:47:10:03 - 00:47:54:19
Nanci Morris Lyon
It's a culture here at my lodge. I don't have anybody working for me who does not know how much I appreciate the opportunity that I have to use what's around me and the responsibility I have to take care of. And I think that that culture is something that is being spread around more because of Pebble Mine. I think, again, just like I said earlier, I think that, you know, one of the good things that has happened from all this badness for these many decades is it has made us realize more firmly and more intimately that we can't take these things for granted.

00:47:54:21 - 00:48:17:11
Nanci Morris Lyon
And so it's a culture I spread. I spread it through my business, I spread it through my personal life. I definitely spread it throughout the academy. One of the first things I teach my students there is that one of the most important things they have is where they came from, their culture and their heritage, their stories in the land they live on.

00:48:17:13 - 00:48:42:23
Nanci Morris Lyon
And that is pretty much a theme that carries throughout the entire weeklong academy and I just I feel like it's it's what makes us who we are out here. And I think even if you would talk to at least 90% of the rest of the lodge owners, if they dug deep inside themselves, they would they would have the same answer for you.

00:48:43:00 - 00:48:51:14
Nanci Morris Lyon
It's it is us. It is who are. It's our culture and it's what we try to spread to those who join us out here as well.

00:48:51:16 - 00:49:17:15
Mark Titus
And it's infectious because I am hopelessly infected with it as well. You know, like it or not, you're going to be seeing me at least once a year for the rest of the rest of our life. So some way, man Yeah, it's true. It's true. Well, we have made it unscathed so far to the bonus round, and it's it's just a fun little thing we do at the end of each of these shows.

00:49:17:17 - 00:49:38:19
Mark Titus
If you've listened to the show, you've heard it. We're making up a little fantasy scenario that let's just say as they knock on wood, that let's say your house is on fire. It's not going to be, but just say it and you can only grab one physical thing out of the house. Obviously, you've gotten Keith and Riley and the dogs out.

00:49:38:21 - 00:49:44:21
Mark Titus
What would that one physical thing be that you'd grab out of the fire?

00:49:44:23 - 00:49:54:11
Nanci Morris Lyon
my goodness. Well, you probably laugh at this, but probably my over and under shotgun that I really, really like.

00:49:54:13 - 00:50:05:09
Mark Titus
That's not the first. That's not the first. I would grab my peace answer and I get it. I it it's totally legit. Yeah.

00:50:05:11 - 00:50:06:02
Nanci Morris Lyon
my goodness.

00:50:06:02 - 00:50:30:03
Mark Titus
You know, they're kind of an extension of your arm, so, you know, that's it's they're hard to come by, so that's legit. How about you? Like if there were two we're getting kind of metaphysical here now. Like if there were two traits that make Nanci, Nanci. And you could only grab two of those things out of the fire on your way out the door, what would those two traits about yourself be?

00:50:30:05 - 00:50:38:11
Nanci Morris Lyon
Probably my determination and my generosity, those first two that jump into my head.

00:50:38:13 - 00:50:53:01
Mark Titus
Yeah, well, I can witness to both of them. And I am I am a student of them both. So good stuff. All right. Lastly, is there is anything that you would leave behind in the fire?

00:50:53:03 - 00:50:56:14
Nanci Morris Lyon
my. Yes, there's plenty. I would leave a.

00:50:56:15 - 00:50:57:06
Mark Titus
Physical or.

00:50:57:06 - 00:51:20:04
Nanci Morris Lyon
Manifest. Most of them are not physical. No, but but you know what? In all honesty, I think as we age, we get different views on things and the physical stuff is just stuff. It really is. And so, yeah, I'd have I'd have some moments of sorrow and regret, especially for the, the photos that you can't replace and all those things you hear about in fires.

00:51:20:04 - 00:51:30:22
Nanci Morris Lyon
But stuff is just stuff. And since I already have my daughter and my husband and my dogs out of the fire, I'm whole, I'm whole. I'm okay.

00:51:31:00 - 00:51:49:15
Mark Titus
It's good by me. Well, Nanci Morris Lyon, owner of Bear Trail Lodge, King Salmon, Alaska. Dear friend, Salmon Warrior, thank you for being on the scene. What you love podcast today. And if folks want to get in touch with you or follow along with what you're doing at Bear Trail Lodge, where can they find you?

00:51:49:17 - 00:52:04:17
Nanci Morris Lyon
yes. And Mark, I want to thank you. I want to thank you for your time in this fight. I want to thank you for your friendship. And I want you to know the door is always open. So you come on up here and folks are welcome to get a hold of me anytime they like. I have a website Bear Trail lodge dot com.

00:52:04:17 - 00:52:22:05
Nanci Morris Lyon
I have phone number 9072462327. And I also have an email which is really fun and easy it's go fish like the card game FISA H at bear trail lodge dot com so come fishing with us any time you like.

00:52:22:07 - 00:52:45:12
Mark Titus
Well and I know I know that the pickings are getting slim everybody wants to get up and out there thank goodness for for that so if you're if you're out there thinking about the adventure of a lifetime, get a hold of Nanci as soon as you can. And because there spots are narrow for 22. But in any case, Nanci, so great to see you.

00:52:45:14 - 00:52:50:23
Mark Titus
I'll be seeing you again soon. But for now, so long and we'll see you down the trail.

00:52:51:01 - 00:52:53:22
Nanci Morris Lyon
You got it. Thank you, Mark.

00:52:54:00 - 00:53:08:21
Music
How do you save what you love?
How do you save what you love?

00:53:08:23 - 00:53:34:22
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening to Save What You Love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts. You can check out photos and links from this episode at evaswild.com. While there, you can join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter, you'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way.

00:53:35:00 - 00:54:12:02
Mark Titus
That's at evaswild.com. That's the word Save spelled backwards Wild dot com. This episode was produced by Tyler White and edited by Patrick Troll. Original music was created by Whiskey Class. This podcast is a collaboration between Ava's Wild Stories and Salmon Nation and was recorded on the homelands of the Duwamish. People. We'd like to recognize these lands and waters and their significance for the people who lived and continued to live in this region whose practices and spiritualities were and are tied to the land in the water, and whose lives continue to enrich and develop in relationship to the land waters and other inhabitants today.