Save What You Love with Mark Titus

00:00:15:00 - 00:00:51:01
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:00:51:03 - 00:00:53:11
Mark Titus
Phil Davis, welcome to the big show.

00:00:53:13 - 00:00:55:06
Phil Davis
It's great to be here.

00:00:55:08 - 00:01:23:18
Mark Titus
I am. You know, I'm just kind of mesmerized by all the synchronicity that has occurred since we met. Whoa. So many. I don't know. Weeks ago. We have mutual friends here in the Pacific Northwest. And, you know, I think it's kind of fundamentally about this concept that my friend Amy Gulick and I talk about wild salmon bring good people together.

00:01:23:20 - 00:01:41:11
Mark Titus
And with that frame, yeah, I would love to hear your story. Where do you come from? And then lead us into what wild salmon have meant to you as you're your journey and your story has unfolded?

00:01:41:13 - 00:02:13:03
Phil Davis
Well, let me let me start with my physical movements, which are less interesting, but at least it gives you an idea of where I came from. From the East Coast. Originally born in South Carolina, Charleston. But I grew up in Connecticut, commuter town to New York City, moved west for college in 1976, and that was my first real experience on the West Coast.

00:02:13:05 - 00:02:41:09
Phil Davis
However, still hadn't been introduced to salmon at that point. I went back to New York City for a couple of years in the early eighties and then chased Love out West. I lived in San Francisco for a couple of years and then moved up to Seattle in 1985. And it was really at that point that I was exposed to, you know, the grandeur of this part of the country.

00:02:41:09 - 00:03:11:19
Phil Davis
I'd never really spent time here and was lucky enough to be connected to a family whose fifth generation Seattle and just had deep, deep roots and connections throughout the area. And it and it gave me an opportunity to settle in and really experience this place. It was also at that time where I was just beginning my romance with fishing, with fly fishing.

00:03:11:19 - 00:03:50:04
Phil Davis
I grew up bass fishing on reservoirs back east in Connecticut under the cloak of evening so you wouldn't get caught. But but the experience that I, I was able to realize here and that connection with not just the fish but the art form and the thought process and the overall experience just completely consumed me. My father in law, who passed away almost 20 years ago, was an avid salmon fisherman.

00:03:50:09 - 00:04:14:03
Phil Davis
So he would go on these these trip up to the connect that river and would, what do you call it, back bouncing or something, traveling back, drilling. You know, you sit in a boat all day. It's cold, it's miserable. It's early June, but the big kings are in. Right. And he would come home and just tell these grand stories and he would bring home some fresh meat.

00:04:14:05 - 00:04:36:10
Phil Davis
And so that was sort of my first real introduction to salmon, was hearing him tell his stories about these experiences. And then I had the opportunity, you know, just through luck is he he invited me on a fishing trip up to Alaska to Lake Illeana.

00:04:36:14 - 00:04:38:01
Mark Titus
Nice.

00:04:38:03 - 00:05:21:06
Phil Davis
And, you know, we fished in early fall, I guess it was late summer, mostly for the rainbows, but it's when the sockeye were returning in just these ridiculous numbers. You know, I had never even fathomed what that could even look like. Yeah. And. And, and through that experience of number one, catching these ridiculously amazing trout is just being exposed to this ecosystem with, you know, literally, I'm catching a rainbow with the bear, watching me, you know, 100 feet away while it's munching on on sockeye.

00:05:21:08 - 00:05:48:06
Phil Davis
And it literally captured me in a way that I would dream about it. I mean, for months afterwards, I would dream about the pull of the of the fish on the end of my line and the vision and view of these salmon as they were doing their thing in this remarkable place. And so that was really the the start of this.

00:05:48:08 - 00:06:27:23
Phil Davis
And, you know, it's a love affair, but it's not like I'm some deep, deeply, you know, studied or or scientific based connection to fish, to salmon. It's just somehow it's in my my psyche. And then Kathy and I, you know, we we fell in love with the Met how valley. And lo and behold, you know, there's salmon swimming up the river right in front of our house and and anyway, I digress.

00:06:27:23 - 00:06:46:15
Phil Davis
We can get to that. But I think that was sort of that at the core. What what drew me to it was experience in them, in their abundance, in a wild place, and then trying to figure out, you know, once I got back down here thinking about, boy, they used to be like that here.

00:06:46:16 - 00:06:48:04
Mark Titus

00:06:48:06 - 00:07:07:17
Phil Davis
And what does it mean to even think about what that could look like in the future? You know, how could we even get back to a a slice of what it was like in Alaska down here? Because it is such a remarkably emotional thing to experience.

00:07:07:19 - 00:07:31:01
Mark Titus
You talk about dreams, and I agree. Like our our dear friend Rick Alford, who's a Alaska state senator for years, who's in both of my films, The Breach in the Wild talks about Bristol Bay in that that way this is the place of dreams. This is the place that generations ago Salmon Country used to look like throughout Salmon Nation.

00:07:31:03 - 00:07:57:15
Mark Titus
And you get like you said, you get bit by that you get this if you're lucky you get this singular experience of transformation. When you get to go to a place like Bristol Bay or Southeast Alaska or it's certainly special places here in the Pacific Northwest, like, like the Metro and yeah, the San Juans and the coast and I know what it sent for me after I got bit by that really.

00:07:57:15 - 00:08:21:00
Mark Titus
And I can kind of I.D. that moment when I was working as a guide in Southeast Alaska. And I knew with certainty that this is my home and I'm going to fight for it for rest of my life. But for you, what is a reverence for the wild mean to you in in your daily life? And how important is that in the work that you do in this world?

00:08:21:02 - 00:08:38:11
Phil Davis
Boy, you know, it's not necessarily a conscious thing. I think, but, you know, I don't want to steal your thunder. But you told me about your new.

00:08:38:12 - 00:08:40:16
Mark Titus
Movie The Turn.

00:08:40:18 - 00:08:55:17
Phil Davis
Which was intriguing to me, was sort of this notion of what compels these creatures, but really any creature to make that turn toward living and start heading toward the end.

00:08:55:22 - 00:08:56:23
Mark Titus

00:08:57:01 - 00:10:01:18
Phil Davis
And so my trajectory was, you know, sort of the classic, you know, life is a linear upward line in our view. And with want and more attached to that linear line and at some point, you know, we make a turn. Yeah, at least we should. And I think that's what happened to me in my, you know, forties, fifties was sort of questioning the why behind this straight linear path upward and to the right that I was on from a life's purpose and realizing that I'm not sure I'm getting a lot out of this other than the monetary aspects and and so I really think what happened without knowing it is I made this turn after

00:10:01:18 - 00:10:32:23
Phil Davis
having been exposed to some things like my experiences up in Alaska or seeing one or two fish in a river in the Met Howe and going, Wow, that's that's there's there's a disconnect there. I mean, because I look at those one or two fish and and and I'm fearful, I'm enthralled, but I'm fearful because it's just one or two of them related to literally kicking salmon out of the way in a Alaska river.

00:10:32:23 - 00:10:57:01
Phil Davis
So you could land your trout. Right. I mean, it's just this this this conflict in me. And I think it just started to inform sort of as I made my turn, what am I going to work on? What what's going to what's going to give me purpose in the second half of my life? And I think it just, you know, there's more to this story that we can get to.

00:10:57:03 - 00:11:45:01
Phil Davis
But because of this feeling I had for fish and water and I was in a place where I could exercise some of those newfound passions is I just looked for opportunities, particularly in the Matt Howe Valley, to connect at that level, whether it was, you know, working for land conservation that was protecting habitat to benefit fish and water or working on affordable housing, which makes it, you know, creates more logical places for people to live in a fragile environment so that we're not destroying, you know, environment that is supporting those critters or building a park, you know, that honors the rivers, the fish and the indigenous people that that preceded us.

00:11:45:01 - 00:11:47:19
Phil Davis
So yeah, I think that's what happened.

00:11:47:20 - 00:12:15:02
Mark Titus
We're going to talk about this wonderful park down the road here in a second. But you've been able to synthesize these experiences that have been epiphanies and I think waking awaking moments, awakening moments. And you've created some work of your own in this that I know is lovely. I've been able to take a look at this. What is the last salmon?

00:12:15:02 - 00:12:22:10
Mark Titus
Can you tell us what this is, what this means to you, what basically what the storyline is and how it came together?

00:12:22:10 - 00:12:57:12
Phil Davis
Sure, sure. Well, let's let's start at the beginning. And what inspired me to come up with this story, because you've heard me say in others, is, you know, I generally don't consider myself to be a storyteller, but I had a story to tell. And so what triggered this story in me years ago, and this was as I was having my, you know, sort of epiphanies about salmon and and their place in our world and their history is I read about Lonesome Larry.

00:12:57:14 - 00:12:58:12
Mark Titus

00:12:58:14 - 00:13:03:20
Phil Davis
And it was like the you know, this realization that.

00:13:04:00 - 00:13:08:11
Mark Titus
You know, wholly we will take.

00:13:08:12 - 00:13:41:08
Phil Davis
Until there's one left. And it was a you know, it just it just was one of those cerebral moments where it just locked into me and it made me think about all the abundance that we have exploited and that literally we will take until there is only one left. And so so that notion that that and the fact that, you know, they gave it a name Lonesome Larry, you know, I mean, that just, you know, personalized it.

00:13:41:10 - 00:13:48:03
Mark Titus
Give us a little backstory on Lonesome Larry for our for our listeners, the infamous Idaho Salmon.

00:13:48:08 - 00:14:15:00
Phil Davis
Yeah. So so again, I you know, I this is just peripheral, so you can probably fill in the blanks. But Lonesome Larry is the story of a single fish who returned to it's a tributary of the Snake River who returned to its home waters to spawn and keep the keep their, their their keep their family going. And one fish came back, right?

00:14:15:00 - 00:14:29:18
Phil Davis
And, you know, they they captured it and they did whatever they do to to preserve the genetic source. And then, you know, using hatcheries and other things to reestablish them. But I got that kind of right is Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

00:14:29:19 - 00:14:33:11
Mark Titus
Yeah. It was lonesome Larry I think it was 1989.

00:14:33:16 - 00:14:35:00
Phil Davis
That's a that sounds about right.

00:14:35:05 - 00:14:54:06
Mark Titus
Redfish Lake in in Idaho and yeah, what was this remarkable, I mean, miraculous story about legions of fish coming back to elevation, hundreds of miles, and one came back. Right. And so that became the bedrock or even the catalyst of this.

00:14:54:06 - 00:15:27:00
Phil Davis
Story that that was. Yeah, that was like obviously the spark. And then and then probably a couple of years later, yeah, it would have been the early nineties after we had purchased our, our, our place on the Chiswick River up in the metal valley in north central Washington. My son and I were sitting on our our deck that looks out on the river and, and he you know so he was I don't know 12 or something and and he.

00:15:27:00 - 00:15:28:18
Mark Titus
Saw.

00:15:28:20 - 00:16:00:11
Phil Davis
Some kids throwing, throwing rocks in the river. So neighbor kids were throwing rocks in the river down below our house. And and he goes running down there. And I wasn't sure. And I hear him yelling, you know, don't do that. Don't do that. And the kids kind of ran off. And then I'm watching my son and they were throwing rocks at a salmon that was sitting there in this quiet, you know, side this, you know, quiet eddy.

00:16:00:13 - 00:16:23:14
Phil Davis
And it was clearly on its last leg. You know, my son didn't know whether it it it had already spawned or whatever. But so he goes down there and and all of a sudden I realize, okay, I see the fish and it's not like we talk about fish at dinner time, Right. I don't know what compelled him to do this other than, you know, we talk about fish and the river.

00:16:23:19 - 00:16:44:06
Phil Davis
He goes down there, cradles the fish, and kind of pushes it back into the main current, the little current. So those are the two things. And you know that that there's the scene in the story where where John, as a kid sort of cradles that fish. And so that's that's those.

00:16:44:06 - 00:16:44:22
Mark Titus
Two.

00:16:45:02 - 00:16:57:13
Phil Davis
Experiences sort of then caused me to say, you know, there's something here and it's touching me so deeply. You're not a storyteller, but it's time to come up with one.

00:16:57:15 - 00:17:18:01
Mark Titus
So how did that come into formation then? I'm always so clear as a as a writer, as a as a person who loves storytelling, I'm absolutely fascinated by process. So, yeah, did this, like, turn into no cards on the wall or was it little short story? Did you do it audibly? Like how did you start working on that?

00:17:18:03 - 00:17:45:19
Phil Davis
I chipped away at it and, you know, because I wasn't under any timetable, I hadn't sold the idea. And so I was under pressure to produce anything. I talked to a couple of people just about the creative process, and I have a tendency to go beyond where I'm at today. You know, I sort of see a vision, and I immediately saw this as like an animated Disney movie, right?

00:17:45:19 - 00:17:58:19
Phil Davis
Cool. So so I tried to before I'd even written the story, I'm like pitching friends of mine that have connections in the movie world. And it's like, Phil, slow down. You know, I'm not even sure.

00:17:58:19 - 00:17:59:04
Mark Titus
What your.

00:17:59:04 - 00:18:14:21
Phil Davis
Story is yet. So it's like, okay, you know, back down. Phil I'm a bit of a windmill chaser and, you know, have caught a couple in my life, but but have realized you've got to put some work in before you can catch the windmill.

00:18:14:22 - 00:18:20:04
Mark Titus
I can. I can empathize. Yeah. So, so.

00:18:20:04 - 00:18:39:18
Phil Davis
Basically what I ended up doing was just starting from the beginning and I would we had a little cabin on a on a lake that ultimately burned down and then was flooded during the Carlton Complex. Fires and floods that followed in the Met. How that's a side story. But for.

00:18:39:20 - 00:18:40:20
Mark Titus
A few years.

00:18:41:00 - 00:18:48:13
Phil Davis
I'd literally and I'd be up there by myself and I'd take a half hour and I'd add.

00:18:48:15 - 00:18:49:20
Mark Titus
A couple of hundred words.

00:18:49:20 - 00:19:11:20
Phil Davis
To the story. And then I'd think about at the end of that writing, I'd think about, So what happens next? And I'd kind of jot down my thoughts. And when I came back and revisited it, then I'd write a little bit more. And after a few years, you know, I had a story and, and I hadn't shared. I told you Cathy's earlier.

00:19:11:20 - 00:19:33:12
Phil Davis
Cathy is a voracious reader and a great reader. She's just, you know, she remembers everything she reads. You know, I pick up a book and literally when I close it at night, when I go to bed, I don't remember what I just read, but so I finished the story. I hadn't shared it with Cathy during the working process phase.

00:19:33:12 - 00:19:58:06
Phil Davis
It was, you know, just my personal thing. And I finally I finally finished it and I one night we were in bed and she was finished reading. I said, Do you want to read the story? She says, It's ready. And I said, Yeah. So I had printed out a copy and and she read it and, you know, I'm just sitting there, you know, heart racing, because I definitely I definitely seek her approval on things.

00:19:58:08 - 00:20:20:13
Phil Davis
And and she finished it. She had tears in her eyes and she just said, this is beautiful, you know, And and I had to make sure that she wasn't just amazed that I could put a couple of sentences together. And she was so impressed by by that. But anyway, so so that was that was the process. And it was.

00:20:20:13 - 00:20:23:04
Mark Titus
Over several years. Yeah, but.

00:20:23:04 - 00:20:27:16
Phil Davis
It was, it was such a wonderful process to go through.

00:20:27:18 - 00:20:53:19
Mark Titus
I know you got to the great privilege of consulting with Billy Frank Jr. Yeah. On this. Can you talk a little bit about what it was like? I mean, I got an opportunity to interview Chairman Frank before he passed away and not particularly starstruck, but I had my heart started racing when he came walking in the room and he got to me, he was a giant of a man.

00:20:53:19 - 00:21:10:04
Mark Titus
Yeah. What did that mean to you? And what. What did Chairman Frank offer as far as a any advice or any kind of blessing on the story?

00:21:10:05 - 00:22:01:17
Phil Davis
You know, this was all through an introduction from our mutual friend Martha Collins guard who has who had been working with him for a number of years, I think mostly on the Puget Sound project. I actually never got to meet him. Unfortunately, this was all done through email and Martha, Martha had shared this story with them, and I don't think there was really any any any purpose in mind like but just to share it, I think mostly for validation, because in this story, particularly the original story, it's it's evolved as we, as we position it for a film.

00:22:01:19 - 00:22:28:07
Phil Davis
But the original story really poked fun at hatchery fish, right? I mean, you know, sort of the dimwitted rivals of the wild salmon, right? And in the in the early stages of sort of getting people's take on this, my my wife actually, she was a social worker, worked at Seattle Cancer Care Alliance and one of her clients was a tribal woman.

00:22:28:09 - 00:22:56:13
Phil Davis
I forget which tribe I think up north and and she read it and her husband worked for the tribal hatchery. And so she actually was very direct and saying, you understand, you know, it's not that we love hatcheries, but we love the fish that come out of the hatcheries, cause otherwise we're not going to have fish to love.

00:22:56:15 - 00:23:37:16
Phil Davis
So very, as you know, very complicated story. So, so it kind of was like, Hey, you know, Billy, Mr. Frank, whatever, whatever. I'm not sure what I what your column, but Billy, you know, to have someone like him kind of read it and, and sort of say, you know what, this is worthy or not. And so Martha gave it to him, and I heard the story afterwards when I received an email that was this foreword to the story that so I wasn't expecting necessarily anything.

00:23:37:16 - 00:24:00:13
Phil Davis
And then here's this forward to the story and part of the debate that happened again, this is second hand is that, you know, Billy was talking with his team and just and sort of say, so should I write this thing? Should I should I sort of give a stamp of approval on this story? And they debated the whole hatchery elements of the story.

00:24:00:15 - 00:24:08:08
Phil Davis
And as the legend goes, there was sort of a pause and and a quiet in the room and Billy says.

00:24:08:10 - 00:24:09:01
Mark Titus
Wow.

00:24:09:03 - 00:24:12:01
Phil Davis
They are kind of stupid, aren't they?

00:24:12:03 - 00:24:13:13
Mark Titus
And, and, and, you.

00:24:13:13 - 00:24:25:06
Phil Davis
Know, and sort of said, you know, the objective is to bring back wild salmon. So. So it's okay. It's okay for us to poke fun at something that really deserves a little bit of fun poking.

00:24:25:08 - 00:24:57:17
Mark Titus
Wow. That is fantastic. I we're going to talk about polarization here later, but what an example of getting to the core of the matter and not letting a polarizing topic paralyze you. Yeah. In in fear. And and it's true. I mean, let's be let's be real like yeah they're not the hatchery fish are not the same and they feed the people that were here long before us after these fish were decimated.

00:24:57:17 - 00:25:17:11
Mark Titus
So it's complicated. And I think there's a wonderful story and so indicative of of Chairman Frank and his sense of humor. So what did you end up with after this creative endeavor? Right. What what did that look like and how did it make its way into the world?

00:25:17:13 - 00:26:04:15
Phil Davis
So so the essence of the story is I'll just kind of and this is the original story, not the not the movie version is. And I'd read a little bit about sort of native lore and the relationship, the original human salmon relationship. So that was grounded in just a bit of knowledge, right? But I'm a white guy telling a story that touches on native experiences, so I know my place in that, which the sidebar being when Billy Frank Jr said, you know, all young kids should read this story and parents and teachers should read it with them, that told me that I wasn't some white guy co-opting a native story.

00:26:04:16 - 00:26:42:22
Phil Davis
So anyway, the arc of the story is it begins at a first salmon ceremony and the the the the gathering is sort of a mix of people, you know, to celebrate the return of the salmon on this make believe river called the Chilkat River and the elder John gathers the children to tell a story of days gone by when the first salmon was almost the last salmon.

00:26:43:00 - 00:27:16:16
Phil Davis
And so that's sort of the live action part of the story. It's it's the gathering. You know, the chapter is called The Gathering. And then he he begins to tell his story, gathers the kids, and begins to tell his story. And and that's when we go in below the water's surface into the animated world of fish. And, you know, because this is you know, it's told in a wondrous childlike way, because I am a wondrous, childlike person.

00:27:16:18 - 00:27:45:08
Phil Davis
And so the you know, the first line is, is is our baby alive in or alive? And I guess that's a that's a double with to say baby alive. And they wouldn't be adult elephants. Elephants, by the way, are the little tadpole salmon emerging from the the reds with their bellies, these pot bellies that are basically their placenta is attached to themselves.

00:27:45:10 - 00:27:59:10
Phil Davis
Anyway, it's it begins with a knock knock joke. You know, about. I can't believe I forget. No joke. So let's try it. Knock, knock, knock.

00:27:59:10 - 00:28:01:07
Mark Titus
Who's there?

00:28:01:09 - 00:28:02:07
Phil Davis
Egg, sac.

00:28:02:07 - 00:28:03:20
Mark Titus
Eggs, sac, coo.

00:28:03:22 - 00:28:34:07
Phil Davis
Exactly. When do we become fish anyway? So. Good God, I'm so glad I remembered it. So. So then we go into the. The bulk of the story is underwater and the experiences of the fish from when they're. When they're little and avoiding the ravenous dive bombing organizers and their interplay with the hatcheries who are sort of clumsy and then diabolical in their in their ways.

00:28:34:09 - 00:29:19:21
Phil Davis
And then and then they get they get the urge to leave their home stretch, you know, kind of like the turn. It's the first urge. And so they take off down river and have all the encounters within the river, the most significant of which is encountering the dam. And and that's kind of a fun scene where, you know, they they all of a sudden get lost in the stalled river and sort of the disorientation and they're bored and tired and and what have you and then bump into the dam's wall and then they notice the hatcheries all sort of pleading to the dam to let them go and they swim on sane on those fools.

00:29:19:21 - 00:29:45:06
Phil Davis
And, you know, so spring back in spring, those are the protagonists and spring is kind of the leader. And so they start moving away from the hatcheries and lo and behold the, the, the gates of the, of the dam open and the hatcheries go shooting out over the dam down to the river below. And you know, the wild salmon are saying my God is they did this at our way out and you know, spring says no, no, no, no, no, don't do that.

00:29:45:06 - 00:30:05:19
Phil Davis
And and then they ultimately find the fish ladder to to, to get by and you know, are wondering, I wonder if the hatchery has made it, that kind of stuff. So so that's a big encounter. And then they encounter pollution and then until they get to the estuary and that's sort of where they linger and start to adjust to this saltier water.

00:30:05:19 - 00:30:43:10
Phil Davis
And they dash out into the into the into the sea and come back, sort of testing the allure of the of the great vastness. And and then and then they encounter an underwater current and it says go, you know, it's time to go. So then they begin they're they're they're they're deep sea adventure and have, you know, remarkable encounters one witnessing the feasting of humpback whales as they're as they you know, they create these bubble nets and capture herring in the bubble net and they get moved up to the surface and the humpbacks come up and devour them.

00:30:43:10 - 00:31:02:02
Phil Davis
And Buck has kind of gone off and scouted ahead because they heard the eerie soundings of the whales. And he's, you know, got this false bravado and and sort of says, I'll go check it out. So he witnesses this great feast and then meets Levi, who is the scared to death of him because it's this huge monster.

00:31:02:02 - 00:31:23:18
Phil Davis
But then this gentle giant shares with Buck Buck, the sort of ways of the of the of the ocean and what they can expect in their journey. So the journey continues and they're out there for a couple of years, and then they get the urge to turn and then they begin their home stream, you know, their their return home.

00:31:23:18 - 00:31:38:00
Phil Davis
And they encounter a fishing boat. And in in the in my story, they they all get captured except for spring. And then Buck Buck's get finds his way out because this too. Anyway long story.

00:31:38:00 - 00:31:39:01
Mark Titus
I actually love that scene.

00:31:39:07 - 00:31:39:23
Phil Davis
it's such.

00:31:39:23 - 00:31:42:02
Mark Titus
A great it's a great escape move.

00:31:42:02 - 00:32:13:15
Phil Davis
It's a great escape move. Do you want me to explain it or. Yeah. So. So. So the the the fish are swimming and the hatcheries notice on top of the surface, a bunch a bunch of fish parts. And so they're super psyched. And so they, they kind of kind of corral the all the other fish and they're fast descending towards the, the, the, the bait on the water surface.

00:32:13:15 - 00:32:42:02
Phil Davis
And what it is, is that it's there's this illegal fishing boat and the crew is tossing out chopped up herring to lure the fish to the surface and and so, you know, buck and spring and the other wild fish are trying to escape, but they're trapped in this type, the confines of the hatchery fish. And so anyway, they get they get netted, all of them except spring, who gets kind of knocked senseless and wanders off.

00:32:42:04 - 00:33:11:19
Phil Davis
This is where where people said, Hey, that's kind of like Finding Nemo. I wrote this without knowing the storyline behind Finding Nemo. I just want you to know. Anyway, so spring makes it makes it the others get captured and they're lifting the net up and ready to dump it in the hole below. And these seagulls who are sort of pissed because they know that less salmon returning to the river means less eyeballs because they love to pack the little eyeballs out of the carcasses as they're lying on the shore.

00:33:11:21 - 00:33:45:17
Phil Davis
And so saw this really adventurous gull, you know, dive bombs, the captain and the boat swings just as the net is opening and the net swings and and and you know that it dumps all the fish except for Buck who kind of because the net has swung and he's on deck flopping around and and one of the crew mates grabs him to to throw him into the water and a gull swoops down and knocks him on his back and Puck gets, you know, thrown back into the water.

00:33:45:17 - 00:34:24:08
Phil Davis
So there's this big climactic scene and and but spring is wandered off and Buck is in the water by himself. So he now begins this journey home hopeful that, I made it spring must have made it too. And and so they're on these separate but parallel paths going home spring not having a clue who she is and buck sort of finding purpose through his hope spring ultimately regains her memory after she's kind of takes in with a school of silver salmon who help her along her way.

00:34:24:08 - 00:34:53:21
Phil Davis
And as they're swimming towards their own home river, there's a boat that passes overhead. And the pounding drumbeat of the propeller triggers spring's memory. So that sort of and she goes, my God, now I know who I am and where I need to go. And and so she bids farewell to her surrogate family and heads back. Meanwhile, Buck is back in the river and losing losing his faith that she's going to return.

00:34:53:21 - 00:35:20:10
Phil Davis
And and so he I had it where he builds the red, builds the nest. And and when I first shared it with this fish guy, he goes, you know, the males don't build the reds, right? It's the female. And I said, okay, well, I'll change it. And I said, You know what usually would be spring's job? But, you know, so I still had him, you know, trying to be cool and build a red.

00:35:20:12 - 00:35:54:13
Phil Davis
So but then he starts dying, so he's ready to give up and John, the elder who's telling the story of the last salmon, you go back and little John, who's been walking the for weeks looking for salmon, finally sees this salmon, single salmon. And he's informed by his grandfather who told him about salmon. And, you know, the the importance and the salmon prayer.

00:35:54:13 - 00:36:21:20
Phil Davis
And he's like, this can't be this can't be it. This can't be the last salmon. So little John jumps into the water and cradles the fish ala my son. Yeah, and kind of nudges it back into the faster water gills, gets a little energy, and he swims free and sits behind the red and little John goes back to shore and, you know, the warm sun on his back.

00:36:21:20 - 00:36:33:10
Phil Davis
And he just watches and and waits. And then spring makes the mad dash up there. Reunited joy.

00:36:33:12 - 00:36:34:06
Mark Titus
The circle.

00:36:34:06 - 00:36:37:07
Phil Davis
The circle is complete it. Yeah.

00:36:37:09 - 00:36:51:12
Mark Titus
It's beautiful, man. It is. It's I mean, I'm watching it all in my head. And even better to to read it and then it as a book, it then morphed into another form. What was that like?

00:36:51:18 - 00:37:28:17
Phil Davis
Yeah. So, so there's a wonderful little community theater, live theater in Twisp, Washington, called the Merc Theater. And there was a new artistic director there. Kai got Berg and Kathy and I had dinner with Kai. She was friends with Cathy's, one of Cathy's sisters. So it was like a good reason to connect. And so we were asking her about her new job and and she ran the drama at Seattle University, I think is her was her day job.

00:37:28:17 - 00:37:40:02
Phil Davis
And then she had a place in the mat Howe and really wanted to do this fun, creative kind of jag to her, to her day job. And and so.

00:37:40:02 - 00:37:42:04
Mark Titus
She was saying, yeah, one of the things I'd really.

00:37:42:04 - 00:37:44:00
Phil Davis
Like to do is find.

00:37:44:06 - 00:37:46:23
Mark Titus
Sort of local stories.

00:37:46:23 - 00:38:15:11
Phil Davis
You know, stuff that's been created locally and turn it into live theater and I said, Well, I wrote this little story, would you want to read it? She said, Sure. So I gave it to her and I don't know, probably a week later she emails me or calls me in and says, I think this would really translate well onto the stage.

00:38:15:13 - 00:38:26:23
Phil Davis
And I went, that's so cool. And and she said, Yeah, as a musical. And I'm like, you know, I'm it's not. I listen to show tunes very often, like never.

00:38:27:01 - 00:38:30:13
Mark Titus
And so I was a little bit apprehensive.

00:38:30:13 - 00:39:17:07
Phil Davis
When she said that. And but she kind of said trust, you know, she said, trust me. And, you know, I love the creative process and I love being around creative people. And then the last thing I'm going to do is get in the way of someone's creativity. So it was like, you know, go for it. So long story short, she and working with this guy, Casey James, who's a local composer here in Seattle, kind of Grammy nominated, he's written songs for some really big artists they came up with the you know, basically the the stage adaptation in terms of the the storyline and the dialog was very true to my story.

00:39:17:09 - 00:39:21:01
Phil Davis
But then what they did is they added these seven songs.

00:39:21:03 - 00:39:23:07
Mark Titus
Which are.

00:39:23:09 - 00:39:50:13
Phil Davis
You know, I'm biased, but they're really good and I don't know if you had a chance, so I haven't heard them yet, but well, you know, I do have this. I put it all I ended up recording it, did a audiobook of the story and then layered in the songs to my reading. So you can sort of see how they're placed within the story on Here's my plug on the last Samsung.com.

00:39:50:15 - 00:40:14:22
Phil Davis
Anyway, it was it was such a joyful way to add to the emotion of this story, to the story to have this music. And so, so it, it, it ran at the Murch Theater for a couple of weeks and then ran. They had a we had two or three nights at Seattle you at their wonderful little theater there.

00:40:15:00 - 00:40:23:15
Phil Davis
And it was, you know, again, I'm biased. I mean, clearly I went to every show, right? I mean, as though as.

00:40:23:15 - 00:40:24:01
Mark Titus
One does.

00:40:24:01 - 00:40:51:13
Phil Davis
As one does. And but there literally were tears and every show had a standing ovation. And it was the most remarkable, cool thing to see how she and Casey and the performers. So this was done kind of as a rock opera. So it's just the band singing and then acting out the parts and kind of like a readers theater more where they, you know, had their scripts.

00:40:51:15 - 00:41:00:23
Phil Davis
But even that was, you know, some people said, my God, this is the best production that the Merc theater's ever put on. So it was super cool.

00:41:01:01 - 00:41:01:20
Mark Titus
Well.

00:41:01:22 - 00:41:04:06
Phil Davis
Then, excuse me. And it told me, Keep going.

00:41:04:11 - 00:41:28:20
Mark Titus
Keep going, man. Just like the salmon. Yeah, they have told me the same many times. And we're going to come back to where you are now with the project and what you're hoping to do with the project. But I want to hover on on the metal itself. You know, this was must have been so special to see it up on stage at a local theater with local production.

00:41:28:20 - 00:41:48:02
Mark Titus
And I know there's such a resonance in your heart for this place. How did this connection come about? For the Metal Valley? What's the correlation with salmon? How did you bring these two sparks together in your mind and in your heart?

00:41:48:04 - 00:42:16:14
Phil Davis
So our first kid was was super colicky and he's the one that actually cradled the fish. But but in those first two years where we're pretty tough, and Cathy's mom, the wonderful woman that she is, Helen and Pat, said, you know what? You guys need a break. We've booked you a couple of nights at this place called Sun Mountain Lodge in our valley.

00:42:16:16 - 00:42:45:20
Phil Davis
And so so that was, you know, that was probably 1987. So we had one of those magical trips over where when we pulled into the valley, know there was sort of that alpen glow. It was in the winter and sort of pink mountains, new snow. And it was, you know, it was one of those defining holy moments about experiencing a place that was remarkable.

00:42:45:21 - 00:43:17:08
Phil Davis
And so that sort of planted the seed. And then years later, we started that we were in a privileged, lucky place to be able to have a second home and and looked at and I was drawn to water rivers, mostly rivers. And so we looked at a couple of the valleys, the Tennessee Valley, the, you know, the Leavenworth area playing Leavenworth, and then the Met Howe and and we sort of looked at them in that order.

00:43:17:08 - 00:43:28:00
Phil Davis
And when we got to the Met, our it was like, you know, it we remember it, you know, the memory of a few years ago. And it's like this is this is going to be place.

00:43:28:01 - 00:43:55:02
Mark Titus
It's it is so beautiful. Yeah. Special. And those who have visited like myself and then those who ultimately decided to make it home, one of my best friends from high school had the same head over heels, love experience, and he lives there now to. Shout out to Pete. So you're living there for a bit. And this place has invaded your your soul for sure.

00:43:55:02 - 00:44:00:13
Mark Titus
And how did this idea for Home Stream Park come to you and Cathy?

00:44:00:15 - 00:44:08:11
Phil Davis
So I had dropped Cathy off at a deal she was doing at Sleeping Lady.

00:44:08:12 - 00:44:09:05
Mark Titus
But sleeping with.

00:44:09:05 - 00:44:26:17
Phil Davis
A sleeping lady is on Icicle Creek outside of Leavenworth. And it's just kind of a retreat center, a great restaurant. I think she was. She was at a yoga retreat. Again, this is sounds so privileged, but but that's the way it is.

00:44:26:19 - 00:44:27:16
Mark Titus
And it's a beautiful place.

00:44:27:16 - 00:44:28:19
Phil Davis
And it's a beautiful screen.

00:44:28:19 - 00:44:31:04
Mark Titus
The breach there, actually. okay. Yeah, it's.

00:44:31:04 - 00:44:54:23
Phil Davis
Lovely. It is. It is wonderful. And we happened to be there during when the Coho were running. A little side story. Most painful thing I witnessed was they've got the hatchery there and all these fish are coming back. You know, they've gone through their life journey and, you know, all the, you know, everything you'll, you'll, you'll learn about and reading, listening to or the last salmon some day.

00:44:54:23 - 00:45:18:06
Phil Davis
But, you know, here they are back at their home stretch a river and the way the hatchery the entrance to the hatchery there's this kind of square opening to a tunnel concrete and I'm watching the fish and the water was a little low and they're literally flying out of Icicle Creek trying to get in and slamming into the concrete.

00:45:18:06 - 00:45:46:07
Phil Davis
And I'm like, for crying out loud, you could have put some bumper guards on that or something, you know? I mean, so other than that, it was a really cool experience to just see the stuff that's going on. So as I drop Cathy off and I'm as I'm driving home to we live outside of Winthrop and, and there's piece of property right at the entrance to Winthrop that had been for sale for a couple of years.

00:45:46:07 - 00:46:06:12
Phil Davis
It was a tired old horse corral and, and it wasn't selling because it's in a floodplain. You really can't do anything with it. But it's a super iconic piece of property as you're entering Winthrop and as I'm driving by, it. And, you know, we everybody in town was noodling. What you know, what what's going to happen to this?

00:46:06:12 - 00:46:22:02
Phil Davis
What do we do with this? You know? And it just hit me. It said, my God, this needs to be so. And this is inspiration. Seeing how art and place mixed in at at Sleeping Lady is.

00:46:22:04 - 00:46:23:00
Mark Titus
God, this.

00:46:23:02 - 00:46:24:07
Phil Davis
This should be a.

00:46:24:09 - 00:46:26:04
Mark Titus
Public park.

00:46:26:06 - 00:46:43:08
Phil Davis
And you know, Winthrop, as I like to say, I call it Thunder Mountain Railroad. You know, it's a pretend town that that that that pays homage to the years, the pioneer years of 1850 to 1900.

00:46:43:10 - 00:46:44:18
Mark Titus
Which which also.

00:46:44:18 - 00:46:51:06
Phil Davis
Happens to be the years that the Met, how people were forcibly removed from their homeland.

00:46:51:08 - 00:46:53:11
Mark Titus
So so and a lot.

00:46:53:11 - 00:46:54:21
Phil Davis
Of people don't know that. I mean, a.

00:46:54:21 - 00:46:56:17
Mark Titus
Lot of people.

00:46:56:19 - 00:47:02:10
Phil Davis
Don't realize that, you know, people preceded the pioneers and a lot of people don't realize.

00:47:02:10 - 00:47:03:15
Mark Titus
That there are salmon.

00:47:03:17 - 00:47:29:21
Phil Davis
In these rivers, which is remarkable. You know, it's become a recreation destination. And people just don't realize that. And so it was like, we need a park that celebrates not just the rivers and the fish, but the native inhabitants today and in the past and in the future and honoring them. So so that was this. This all came to me.

00:47:29:21 - 00:47:49:21
Phil Davis
Kathy's at the retreat, so I called the number on the for sale sign, you know, get an idea of what it might go for. I go in and talk to the town and ask them, Is this reasonable? Will this fit within zoning and shoreline stuff? I walk in and talk to my friends at the Met Hall Conservancy and say, Am I crazy for doing this?

00:47:49:23 - 00:48:20:00
Phil Davis
I'm like, No, you know, I got check the box, so I'm all ready to go. It's just like I got Kathy coming home. So she comes home and in the evening and I'm a little bit, as I said, I chase windmills and, you know, this one really meant a lot to me. So I was nervous. You know, it's because Kathy's validation is super important to me.

00:48:20:02 - 00:48:48:03
Phil Davis
And so I didn't say much that night. And she thought, Phil's doing one of his weird it's some and you get up in the morning and I say, okay, I got to tell you something. And she's like, and I say, And I'm a little bit nervous because I have an idea. And again, she has been through some of my ideas and and so I we sit she says, okay, I'm ready.

00:48:48:03 - 00:49:10:19
Phil Davis
And she puts on her great social work face, you know, not going to reveal anything, you know, kind of like when she first read the last salmon, you know, didn't reveal it till the end. And so I tell her the story and she there's this pause, awkward pause. I got through it. She puts her hands on the side of my face.

00:49:10:21 - 00:49:53:16
Phil Davis
She looks at me. I thought she was going to strangle B, But no, it is this very loving embrace on my face. And she squeezes my face a little bit and she says, I love it. So. So that was how this all came to that. That was the end. So then we went through the mechanics of building a park really, and really anchored around this, this sort of human emotional connection around what the river and the fish and the native history and future, how that how that should be represented in our own lives.

00:49:53:18 - 00:50:24:18
Phil Davis
And we had this remarkable sculptor, smoker Marchand did first a spawning salmon scene, big salmon, you know, kind of six feet salmon sitting on a red, two male and a female who's carving the red. And that's the first sculpture. And then at the far end of the is is a is a sort of a tribal fish camp, you know, with a whole scene, there's there's probably seven or eight and these are life size sculptures.

00:50:24:18 - 00:50:55:18
Phil Davis
It's just remarkable. And so you get that experience and we've got interpretive signs that kind of tell this story, not in a scientific way, but in an emotional way. And then when you turn the corner and come back, it's this meandering and that's all ADA accessible. But then the meander back to where you started is a footpath. And what we did is we placed nine huge boulders that block the path all the way up.

00:50:55:20 - 00:51:18:21
Phil Davis
Those boulders represent the nine dams that the fish have to pass to come up to the Met House. Wow. And, you know, so, so as, as, as as I say, you sort of you know, this is the inside of my brain when you're walking through this park. But it just was a you know, it's become such a powerful place in community.

00:51:19:01 - 00:52:08:06
Phil Davis
And then we had all kinds of community volunteerism and acts of generosity to turn this place into reality. And the most rewarding part now is, you know, these little kids, the the school comes there and and the kids are there almost daily, you know, experiencing the joy of this place that kids from Pascal Sherman School, which is the Indian school over on the other side of the valley, the kids from Orville and and these are these are Okanagan Valley towns, kids from Pateros and Brewster, you know, So there's field trips now coming here with with people of color, native native people, you know, not just appealing to the to the local community.

00:52:08:07 - 00:52:10:19
Phil Davis
It's just so rewarding.

00:52:10:21 - 00:52:19:07
Mark Titus
I was taken by the collaboration. I know there was a ton of collaboration with so many people, but the in particular, the collaboration with Smoker.

00:52:19:08 - 00:52:20:01
Phil Davis
Yeah.

00:52:20:03 - 00:52:24:18
Mark Titus
How did you how did that come about and what is his background?

00:52:24:20 - 00:52:53:12
Phil Davis
So, so it really came about sort of admiring, you know, on on the drive when you come up to the Met how along the Columbia so that's the winter drive because you can't go over the North Cascade Highway which closes in the winter and there's, you know, wonderful sculptures of smokers at a relatively new park there near the Beebe Bridge that crosses the Columbia.

00:52:53:12 - 00:53:24:19
Phil Davis
And so, you know, so that was sort of like, wow, if if we were to have an artist, you know, do this, that would be the the artist. And so I reached out to a couple of people that are one in particular, this gentleman, Richard Hart, who wrote a book called A Lost Homeland, which is sort of the story of the Met, how people and how they lost their homeland.

00:53:24:19 - 00:53:57:00
Phil Davis
So it's their history and and what happened. And so I asked Richard and he said, yeah, that's smoker and and and so I was able to reach out to smoker. And you know, one of the things I've learned in getting in presenting ideas to tribal folks is legitimately so they're going to be suspicious about, you know, what the intention is.

00:53:57:02 - 00:54:24:05
Phil Davis
You know, is it going to be co-opted for profit or something? And, you know, clearly that wasn't our objective here. And so Cathy and I met with Smoker and shared our vision and and he was he's just this wonderful guy. I don't know if you've ever had a chance to meet him, but but yeah, so we just shared the vision and he said, yeah, I'm in, I'm in.

00:54:24:05 - 00:54:49:06
Phil Davis
And then we, we sort of collaboratively came up with what the sculptures, what the scenes might look like. I had in my head wanting this, this salmon spawning depiction. And then he sort of worked on and then also, you know, some sort of, you know, tribal camp or something because the Met how wasn't a permanent home for the Met how people it was their seasonal grounds.

00:54:49:06 - 00:55:14:23
Phil Davis
They'd come, as I understand it, two or three times a year, you know, following you know, the the the game or the, the routes and plants and then the salmon. And so having a scene that depicted that and so, so and working with him and seeing his process, Cathy and I went out and visited him and his uncle Gary, who is 86 years old at the time.

00:55:14:23 - 00:55:45:22
Phil Davis
He was so he's probably 90 now. He was the welder, so smoker Wood would imagine the sculptures cut them from these sheets, you know, four by eight sheets of metal, steel, cut them, and then Gary Wood and then them and then Gary Wood. Wood. Piece them all together, welding them. And, you know, it was again, one of those incredible experiences that, that I just feel privileged to have been a part of.

00:55:46:00 - 00:56:03:15
Mark Titus
It's anybody can come to this park. Yeah, it's in in Winthrop. Yep. Okay. And yeah, folks will get to where you can find Phil's work here at the end of the podcast. But I, for one, will be checking this out in person. Yeah, it's amazing to look at the story online, but I think.

00:56:03:15 - 00:56:04:05
Phil Davis
You just.

00:56:04:05 - 00:56:13:06
Mark Titus
Want to be there and touch these things. And I love the boulders, by the way. I know that till today that they represent the dams. That's incredible.

00:56:13:10 - 00:56:39:09
Phil Davis
So do the kids. You should see them scramble over those things, jump off and, you know, eight year old saying, I'm a salmon getting over the dams. So it's serving its purpose. Right. It's making people aware. I mean, I believe in this sort of caring circle. Right. And I think I mentioned after listening to your podcast cast with David James Duncan about Murmurations, is that is that ultimately That's what I'm trying.

00:56:39:09 - 00:57:02:05
Phil Davis
I think that's what's motivating me around the last salmon and keeping it going is to create more of that caring because we're not going to change stuff. I don't think just through science and through debate is that you got to get a mass of people that care, right? And then once that happens, then things follow. So, so, so I want to be a part of that.

00:57:02:05 - 00:57:28:16
Mark Titus
MURMURATION Yeah, Well, clearly that's that is the the basis, the heart of the work that I'm working on as well. So we're completely joined that way as we head down the homestretch here. This is a there's a lot of latitude with this this thought. I'm going to give you here. But, you know, salmon, salmon fade away by a death of a thousand cuts.

00:57:28:18 - 00:57:45:21
Mark Titus
You know, when when humans come into their territory, it's all manner of over harvest. And these are the five ages that Dave Montgomery talks about in King of Fish, which is a must read if you haven't read it yet.

00:57:45:21 - 00:57:50:18
Phil Davis
And I have he's and he's awesome. I worked with him on the whole River Trust project so.

00:57:50:18 - 00:58:19:22
Mark Titus
In right but you know hatcheries habitat loss hydro and harvest over harvest and then history being are we ever going to learn from our history. Yeah it seems so daunting and challenging and, you know, especially down here in the lower 48 and it's indicative of the thousand cuts that we're feeling with other things, with climate change, with the polarization of our of our country.

00:58:19:22 - 00:58:47:05
Mark Titus
And man, it seems like it's such an uphill battle, and yet you've done something 100 words at a time. Yeah. What can you recommend from where you sit for people that want to do something, they feel compelled to do something but are completely daunted by the challenge.

00:58:47:07 - 00:59:04:18
Phil Davis
God, that there that's the $64,000 question. I mean, it's to me I when I, when I think about things at a macro level, it's paralyze thing.

00:59:05:00 - 00:59:06:13
Mark Titus
Exactly.

00:59:06:15 - 00:59:39:23
Phil Davis
But when I when I look at what can I do within my own sphere to be a part of of a process that may not work, but at least the intention is there to create change so that we can give it our best shot to fix these things is that that's where I get joyful and hopeful is is just doing local stuff.

00:59:40:01 - 01:00:28:19
Phil Davis
And and so that's, you know, that's where my inspirations have come since I've made my personal turn. And that would be that's how I would encourage people to if it feels so daunting, is look for an opportunity to do something locally for whatever the cause is, right? I mean, it's that for you and I, there's this thing with salmon and making sure that that, that they that naturally spawning salmon aren't just going to be found in that beautiful ecosystem in Alaska, but maybe more and more so down here.

01:00:28:21 - 01:00:40:11
Phil Davis
And I guess I sort of leave it up to the more courageous people that know how to work in the macro world to deal with that, because I'm just not equipped to do that.

01:00:40:13 - 01:01:04:10
Mark Titus
It's the name of the show Save what You Love. And it's not save, save all the salmon. And it is exactly that. It's got to start in this heart space. And it really leads us toward doing something local. What you know, what you see, you know what's down the street, You know, if if it's your family's farmland, if it's if it's the the forest land.

01:01:04:11 - 01:01:33:14
Mark Titus
Yeah. Down the road that's been a park and save those things that you love that you can do something about right now, today, really, you know, as we've turned the corner into 22 and talking in detail with a lot of friends about this bigger topic about what do we do, you know, and in the face of how challenging and daunting that is, kind of summarily come to three words do good work and let the rest sort itself out.

01:01:33:14 - 01:01:50:14
Mark Titus
And it doesn't mean the biggest work right? It doesn't mean flashy work, it means do good work, do do 100, 100 words at a time. Yeah, or ten words at a time or 10 minutes a day. Yeah. All right. So we're going to start wrapping this thing up, But I want to know.

01:01:50:16 - 01:01:53:10
Phil Davis
Can I add one thing? Of course. And bring the kids along?

01:01:53:12 - 01:01:54:00
Mark Titus

01:01:54:02 - 01:02:18:17
Phil Davis
In me for me, you know, preaching to a bunch of, you know, over 40 year olds is great, but but it is the next generation. I mean, if the if if, if they don't if they're not captured early, then they may not care until they're 40. And that and that can happen. It's got to that caring has got to be embedded in their psyche.

01:02:18:17 - 01:02:23:10
Phil Davis
And I mean all kids, not just a certain demographic of kid.

01:02:23:10 - 01:02:57:01
Mark Titus
Absolutely. And That's what I love. Specifically about your work in both with with the park and with the last salmon is that it is an open invitation to to to engage, to exhilarate, to inspire young people. And you're right that is there's there's no greater calling. Yeah. Speaking of yeah the last salmon what are your what are your intentions and your dreams and your hopes for the next leap as it were, for this story?

01:02:57:06 - 01:02:59:12
Mark Titus
How do you visualize it moving forward?

01:02:59:13 - 01:03:56:22
Phil Davis
So the grand vision is that it's a feature film and it mixes a combination of live action and animation with a much richer and deeper human story to go along with the the underwater salmon story and to find the parallels in those so that, you know, at the end of the day, basically people feel that not necessarily overly optimistic, but at least hopeful that, you know, those natural abundances that are that are hanging by or once natural abundances that are hanging on by a thread in some cases that that through this caring circle, through getting more people awareness is there is that and also learning from those original human relationships with these things that that

01:03:56:22 - 01:04:28:15
Phil Davis
that sense of reciprocity that that we can begin to form a future that that that considers those things so that we hopefully can restore or renew an abundance and then figure out how do you then only take what that restored or renewed abundance can spare. And that's so, so so how do you do that in a feature film that appeals to all ages?

01:04:28:17 - 01:05:21:19
Phil Davis
That's going to be the magic of I think we have the story. It's now going to be the magic of the screenwriting and the moviemaking and so my goal now, again, I, I said it before, I'm a white guy telling a story that I probably, you know, needs needs some help with. So I would love to partner with native creative talent in a way that it's not a you know, in a way that it feels like it, that they own it to, that this isn't just helping Phil create this thing, but but to find and partner with a native screenwriter, for example, the native production company I made, I'm meeting with Darryl Hilaire tomorrow up

01:05:21:19 - 01:05:49:13
Phil Davis
in Bellingham. He's a Lummi tribal elder who has children of the setting Sun Productions. I'm meeting with him tomorrow just to just to kind of share this vision. So, so so finding those partnerships now, you know, I'm way over my skis on this. I've never made a movie. I have no idea what I'm doing, but I know what I'm feeling and so that's what's guiding me at this point.

01:05:49:13 - 01:06:03:04
Phil Davis
And so I want it to be authentic from a storytelling standpoint. And then I want it to appeal to a very broad audience because I think that's how we continue to move the needle to effect change.

01:06:03:06 - 01:06:27:18
Mark Titus
I couldn't agree with you more this this show and what I'm working on with Abe is Wild is integrated with a bigger picture with Salmon Nation as a network. And that's exactly what you're talking about in terms of collaboration is exactly right up that alley of of those types of relationships to foster and connect and and make flourish.

01:06:27:18 - 01:06:38:00
Mark Titus
Right. And I can't wait to have more conversation about this because I am very excited about this project. And, you know, we'll let's see where it goes. Yeah.

01:06:38:05 - 01:06:38:13
Phil Davis
Yeah.

01:06:38:13 - 01:07:02:16
Mark Titus
Thank you. And so you've listened to the show and so, yes, now we're here at the end of the show and we do a little imagination exercise and, you know, being being anywhere in the Northwest and frankly, these days, just pick your favorite natural disaster, you know, whether it's a flood or a wildfire or God only knows. But let's just say you've only got seconds.

01:07:02:16 - 01:07:19:05
Mark Titus
You've already got your loved ones out. You've got your loved beloved pets out. Now you can choose one physical thing before the raging waters. Take your your house down the river. What would be that one physical thing that you take with you?

01:07:19:07 - 01:07:22:22
Phil Davis
Probably my underwear. Yeah, that.

01:07:22:22 - 01:07:28:00
Mark Titus
You know that good idea. Yeah.

01:07:28:01 - 01:07:33:20
Phil Davis
Yeah, I heard this. And. And I don't. I don't think I really have a good maybe.

01:07:33:20 - 01:07:37:18
Mark Titus
A copy of the last salmon. Sure. I mean, you know.

01:07:37:20 - 01:07:56:19
Phil Davis
At its core, it's sort of who I am in my inside. And I think in the face of, you know, that kind of disaster, I think you need to remind yourself who you are and why you are. And so maybe that that would be selfishly, that's what I would take since all those other critical things are already safe.

01:07:56:19 - 01:08:00:17
Phil Davis
I think that's what the what the exercise was about.

01:08:00:17 - 01:08:18:00
Mark Titus
It is and yeah, there's there's been some very fun answers and underwear is the first. But I think that's a critical piece of the equation getting out of the house, literally. I think about that like if there's an earthquake, I'm like, man, I hope I got underwear on so well.

01:08:18:00 - 01:08:30:01
Phil Davis
And understand, we have been we have encountered personally fires and evacuations in the Met have we've lost property. And then this summer we were literally you could see the flames from our house. So. Yeah.

01:08:30:03 - 01:08:34:06
Mark Titus
Well, anyway, knock on wood. Yeah, well, our prescriptions too.

01:08:34:06 - 01:08:34:15
Phil Davis
We took.

01:08:34:15 - 01:08:51:17
Mark Titus
Those. good. Yeah, good idea. Let's now call it your spiritual house or your or your emotional house. What are the two characteristics about you that make Phil? Phil, if you could only take two. Yeah. What, what would those two things be?

01:08:51:19 - 01:09:11:06
Phil Davis
Creativity. That's. That's what has brought me joy throughout my life. And through the dark times. It's what it's what's brought me out of my personal, dark times.

01:09:11:08 - 01:09:13:22
Mark Titus
And joy.

01:09:14:00 - 01:09:29:13
Phil Davis
I just it if we can't find joy even in the mess, is we've got to find joy. Otherwise it's going to get really, really bad.

01:09:29:15 - 01:09:47:03
Mark Titus
I'm it's such a simple word and yet it can carry through. Yeah I couldn't agree with you more. Is anything you'd leave behind to be washed away purified in that flood?

01:09:47:05 - 01:09:53:22
Phil Davis
Yeah, well, I would say the the fear of dying.

01:09:54:00 - 01:09:55:05
Mark Titus

01:09:55:07 - 01:10:29:02
Phil Davis
And I'll just add, I think that's the thing about salmon that I'm so drawn to is that dying is a joyful act because you have completed your purpose. We, in our crazy ways, you know, fear death because we're on that linear march as opposed to a circular march. And a little sidebar quick, because I know we're wrapping up.

01:10:29:04 - 01:11:02:05
Phil Davis
I heard a palliative care doctor talk about how we approach death. And he said, Yeah, we have this wonderful way of walking toward death backwards. And what palliative care and that whole sense, the sensibilities of it are is that you turn around and you've walked toward it, facing it. And I sort of feel like, you know, again, in the turn, you know, that's what you're doing.

01:11:02:09 - 01:11:27:20
Phil Davis
You know, let's not turn and walk backwards toward our end, but walk joyfully toward it. And I don't know if I'll be able to live that when I'm confronted with it, but that's what my hope is, is that just to not approach the last several decades with any fear of the end.

01:11:27:22 - 01:11:38:12
Mark Titus
That's a beautiful place to park conversation for now. And Phil Davis, how can people get involved with your work? Where can they find you and what you're working on?

01:11:38:14 - 01:12:12:02
Phil Davis
Well, I said they're the I do have the story in its original book form read by myself with the music interlaced on the last salmon com. And I think as this progresses, since that's really going to be I think the focus of my I only want to chase one windmill at a time. And so as this evolves, I think I'll use that as a way to continue to share the story of the progress.

01:12:12:04 - 01:12:19:01
Mark Titus
Phil Davis, thank you for sharing your wisdom, your experience, strength and hope with us today. And we will see you down the trail.

01:12:19:03 - 01:12:20:17
Phil Davis
Thank you.

01:12:20:19 - 01:12:21:20
Music
How do you save what you love?
How do you save what you love?

01:12:35:18 - 01:13:01:17
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening to Save What You Love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts. You can check out photos and links from this episode at evaswild.com. While there, you can join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter, you'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way.

01:13:01:19 - 01:13:38:22
Mark Titus
That's at evaswild.com. That's the word Save spelled backwards Wild dot com. This episode was produced by Tyler White and edited by Patrick Troll. Original music was created by Whiskey Class. This podcast is a collaboration between Ava's Wild Stories and Salmon Nation and was recorded on the homelands of the Duwamish. People. We'd like to recognize these lands and waters and their significance for the people who lived and continued to live in this region whose practices and spiritualities were and are tied to the land in the water, and whose lives continue to enrich and develop in relationship to the land waters and other inhabitants today.