Save What You Love with Mark Titus

00:00:00:06 - 00:00:25:09
Mark Titus
Welcome to the Save What You Love podcast. I'm Mark Titus. Well, it's been a hot little minute or two and I need to dive into some housekeeping with you briefly. First off, I'm sorry for the long lag here. It became clear to me earlier this year that our weekly episode release wasn't going to be tenable. So if you're hearing this now, I'm deeply grateful for you hanging in there with me.

00:00:25:11 - 00:00:57:21
Mark Titus
Here's what's been going on. I'm neck deep in filming the final film in my Salmon Love trilogy, and I'm calling it The Turn. The Turn refers to that moment in time when wild salmon know it's time to turn and come home almost magically, mystically. It also refers to us as a species. Are we at a point where we're going to turn into a way of living with the natural rhythm of the world as opposed to just taking what we want and leaving it for dead like we've been doing for the last 250 years?

00:00:57:23 - 00:01:31:14
Mark Titus
Or are we going to end up extinct like other creatures out there that we have been running roughshod over for so long now? So it's a hopeful little piece. It actually is. And it's beautiful. And I'm really grateful to be working on it right now. So that's taking up a bunch of time and over. It is wild. Together with my new partner, Matt Cerf, we've been cooking up a whole lot of content for a media platform to feature the best of our bioregion here in Salmon Country, which leads me to the road ahead for this podcast.

00:01:31:16 - 00:01:53:02
Mark Titus
There are so many terrific voices out there I can't wait to share a conversation with and bring to you. And we're going to do just that to keep bringing this content to you regularly. Once we turn the corner into 2023, we're moving into a subscriber system based on Sam Harris's great model with his Making Sense podcast still completely commercial free.

00:01:53:02 - 00:02:16:18
Mark Titus
But there will be two versions of the show, one full length show for paid subscribers and the other still commercial free version will end with 30 minutes left in the show. Here's the kicker Money should not and will not be a barrier to accessing our storytelling. Anyone who can't afford a subscription need only email me and you'll receive a pass for a whole year of the podcast.

00:02:16:19 - 00:02:38:04
Mark Titus
No questions asked. This is really about getting real and supporting this work sustainably and keeping it coming to you. And that's where the subscriber membership will come in. But again, no one will be left out. Much more on all of this soon. Okay. Speaking of paying for stuff, we're also going full throttle on a funding round for Eva's Wild.

00:02:38:06 - 00:03:01:00
Mark Titus
We're using the crowdfunding platform. We fund her to offer investment in our public benefit corporation. We're on our way toward raising all the funds necessary to get the company to financial prosperity a year from now and pay for all of the production, post-production and a 50 city tour of the turn when it's ready to roll, likely in late 2024.

00:03:01:02 - 00:03:23:07
Mark Titus
So to make a bona fide investment in the work we're doing over time as well, which encompasses all of this storytelling, by the way, just head on over to our website at evaswild.com. That's the word save spelled backwards Wild dot com. There's a link right on the front page to invest here. Okay, so onto the main course.

00:03:23:08 - 00:03:49:00
Mark Titus
Today on the show, I have the privilege of speaking with Tom Colicchio. Tom was a founder of Bravo's wildly popular Top Chef reality show. He's also the chef and owner of Crafted Hospitality, which currently includes New York's Craft Temple Court and Vallarta restaurants. Long Island's small batch craft Los Angeles and Heritage Steak and craft steak in Las Vegas.

00:03:49:02 - 00:04:18:19
Mark Titus
And also witchcraft, a premiere sandwich and salad joint in New York. Born in Elizabeth, New Jersey, Tom made his New York cooking debut at New York restaurants The Quilted Dress, Gotham Bar and Grill and Gramercy Tavern before opening Craft in 2001. In an effort to broaden his long standing activism around food issues. Tom served as an executive producer to his wife, Laurie Silver, Bush's 2013 documentary, A Place at the Table, about the underlying causes of hunger in the United States.

00:04:18:21 - 00:04:45:03
Mark Titus
He's been a mainstay in our nation's capital in the years since. Tom has established himself as a leading citizen chef, advocating for a food system that values access, affordability and nutrition over corporate interests. In 2020, Tom took this to the airwaves with a podcast of his own called Citizen Chef, which features conversations with lawmakers, journalists and food producers and connects the dots of how our food system really works.

00:04:45:05 - 00:05:04:23
Mark Titus
In response to the COVID 19 pandemic, Tom co-founded the Independent Restaurant Coalition and was instrumental in the passage of the American Rescue Act. Tom lives in Brooklyn with his wife, Laurie, and their three sons. When he's not in the kitchen. He can be found tending to his garden on the north fork of Long Island, enjoying a day of fishing, which he does a lot.

00:05:05:05 - 00:05:34:11
Mark Titus
I've noticed on his Instagram or playing guitar. Okay, final note here today. I'm thrilled to be partner ing on content and inspiration with the support of the Magic Canoe, another terrific storytelling vehicle here in Salmon Nation. Head over to Magic, New York to learn more and once again to make an investment in wild salmon. Through the work we're doing with Eva's Wild head on over to evaswild.com and click the investment button to get started.

00:05:34:13 - 00:05:57:02
Mark Titus
That's simply the word saved spelled backwards, Wild dot com. And you're off and running. Thank you. Once again for hanging with me all this time, including this incredibly lengthy intro today. I'm happy to be back and so very happy to report. More storytelling coming your way very, very soon. Enjoy today's show.

00:05:57:04 - 00:06:33:10
Music
How do you save what you love?
When the world is burning down?
How do you save what you love?
When pushes come to shove.
How do you say what you love?
When things are upside down.
How do you say what you love?
When times are getting tough.

00:06:33:12 - 00:06:37:04
Mark Titus
Chef Tom Colicchio, Where are you joining us from today? Welcome.

00:06:37:06 - 00:06:45:04
Tom Colicchio
Hey, how you doing? I am in Mattituck, New York. So it's the north Fork of Long Island. It's about 80 miles outside of Manhattan.

00:06:45:06 - 00:06:47:20
Mark Titus
Beautiful. And how's the fishing?

00:06:47:22 - 00:06:53:19
Tom Colicchio
Fishing has been okay. It's been windy the last couple of days, so I haven't been out, but I'm going out tomorrow. What?

00:06:54:01 - 00:06:59:00
Mark Titus
What's the story? What's the plan out there? How do you how do you fish out on the East Coast for our West Coast listeners here?

00:06:59:06 - 00:07:28:22
Tom Colicchio
Well, there's a lot of things you can do. You can ensure right now. Bottom fish for sea bass and fluke fish for striped bass. There's been a run, a cobia nearshore, which is pretty cool. We typically don't see them. I haven't gotten into them yet. And offshore. There's tuna as, say, a bluefin tuna that's kind of near and offshore yellowfin tuna, anywhere from 30.

00:07:29:00 - 00:07:53:06
Tom Colicchio
You know, they actually come in this time of year and they're nearshore, which is, you know, 40 miles out and then out of the canyons, there's bigeye tuna, that's all mostly in the canyons. And you can't get white marlin, blue marlin. We got a Wahoo last week, which is pretty cool. Wow. So, yeah, So we get a lot of different different opportunities.

00:07:53:08 - 00:08:09:11
Mark Titus
Well, I know that fishing is tied up in your life story and how you got here, and that's exactly what I want to ask you about next on this show. We always give everybody the chance to tell your life story. How did you come into this work that you do.

00:08:09:13 - 00:08:32:20
Tom Colicchio
Which were I wear a lot of different hats. You know, there's the chef worked as the Tvert is the advocacy work. There's the parenting work. There's a lot of a lot of different loud, different balls in the air. Sure enough, podcasting. Yeah. But if we're talking about fishing and I yeah, I started fishing with my grandfather when I was about five.

00:08:32:22 - 00:09:01:22
Tom Colicchio
And, you know, when I say fishing, it was mostly crabbing and clamming and a little bit of fishing, but mostly crabbing and clamming. We had a small little boat and I had two jobs, and this is probably what led me to cooking as well. I had two jobs when going fishing. One was from a very young age. They put a knife in my hand and they had to fly all the fish and take care of all the crabs and the clams and make sure that got to my my grandmother and my mother so they can prepare them.

00:09:02:00 - 00:09:18:13
Tom Colicchio
And my second job was to keep my grandfather awake on the ride home. Now, this is the seventies, so there were no seatbelts and I was in the front seat and I would have to keep an eye on him. And if I saw him starting to not out, I would have to give him a nudge and he would he would always, always say the same thing.

00:09:18:15 - 00:09:49:10
Tom Colicchio
I'm not sleeping. I'm just resting my eyes. And that was that was my job. And, you know, I remember those meals that we that we cooked because they were these big not really elaborate. They were pretty simple. But the big meals because we would prepare the crab is the normal way of steaming them. These are blue blue crabs, steaming them and then taking the shell off, taking the gills out.

00:09:49:12 - 00:10:07:02
Tom Colicchio
But then we would in most people would eat them at that point. We would put them in marinara sauce. And, you know, being Italian-American, there was always the tomato sauce of some sort, especially my family's were from the south of Italy. And so we would put them into marinara sauce for about a half an hour or 45 minutes and let them cook.

00:10:07:04 - 00:10:29:16
Tom Colicchio
And then we would eat the marinara sauce over linguine and then pick the crabs. If we had clams, they were always steamed garlic, white wine, lots of parsley. If it if we codfish, it was typically just battered and fried. But that was a long meal because you're picking crabs. And often if we had a big haul, we had extended family and relatives come over as well.

00:10:29:18 - 00:11:01:04
Tom Colicchio
And, you know, I think that those those meals and seeing our family get together, I think that's what led me to cook. And, you know, we would it wasn't so much about the food. The food was fantastic. But also having all these people around the table for an extended period of time, there was always conversations. You start off usually about the big fish or crab that got away and, you know, always family gossip, sports, politics.

00:11:01:04 - 00:11:21:16
Tom Colicchio
But everybody everybody was on the same page. So that wasn't much of a conversation. My dad, though, was very much into politics. And so that was that was I know I remember these these these dinners fondly. And, you know, I think looking back on that, that I think that's what led me to to actually cook.

00:11:21:18 - 00:11:43:06
Mark Titus
Yeah. You know, you mentioned all the hats and and all the different work and what I'm first of all, it's such an evocative story. I love that I identify with so much of that going out with my dad early on two years old, caught my first king salmon with my dad and those big meals and picking crab around the table.

00:11:43:06 - 00:11:56:18
Mark Titus
And you know, you get a quarter of it in your mouth and the rest, we would say, for the meal or that freeze for later. My wife and I had last summer did great opening week and we got £16 of pick Dungeness crab.

00:11:56:23 - 00:11:57:18
Tom Colicchio
nice. Yeah.

00:11:57:18 - 00:12:24:17
Mark Titus
That we picked and and froze for you know had a bunch of and a Christmas but you know what I'm sensing is a connection you know this connection to food, to family, to each other. And I wonder if that is a through line into all the hats, the work with the capital W and you know, what is that thing that got you into cooking?

00:12:24:17 - 00:12:36:10
Mark Titus
And then more into delivering that to to the world in a greater extension of this this long table that you experience with your family?

00:12:36:12 - 00:13:07:17
Tom Colicchio
You know, it's hard to pinpoint one thing. I mean, I was always taught to give back, you know, as a chef in New York, especially as a high profile chef, you're asked to do many events, usually fundraisers. And typically our industry rallied around issues of hunger. I think most of us cook for a living and we see people who are well-off and we think most of us would say that we feel that food and healthy food, nutritious food, is a right, just like breathing clean air and drinking clean water.

00:13:07:19 - 00:13:35:20
Tom Colicchio
And so I got involved in working for organizations like Share Our Strength No Kid Hungry, Meals on Wheels, God Love, We deliver New York Food Bank, City, Harvest. And, you know, I thought I knew a bit about this subject. And then about ten years ago, my wife, she's a filmmaker and she was mentoring a young woman. And it was clear to to her that, you know, two things.

00:13:35:20 - 00:13:54:21
Tom Colicchio
She had some learning disabilities and that she was often hungry. Her family was living in the shelter, and she would come to our house for dinner and we would send food home. And we realized we were putting a Band-Aid on the problem. And around the same time, we also got her into a school that would meet her needs in New York City.

00:13:54:21 - 00:14:11:23
Tom Colicchio
If the public school system can't meet the needs of the kids, you can put them into a private school setting and the city has to pay for it. And this wasn't some fancy private school, but it was a school that was geared towards teaching kids with some learning disabilities. But because it wasn't part of the public school system, it didn't have a lunch program or breakfast program.

00:14:12:01 - 00:14:34:00
Tom Colicchio
And so the two meals a day that this kid was getting at school, she wasn't getting now and we got a phone call from the principal saying that she was clearly hungry. And so my wife started to explore the issues of hunger in America. And that film led me, you know, gave me a platform and a platform for being on TV.

00:14:34:00 - 00:14:59:11
Tom Colicchio
What gave me a real opportunity to to to to talk about the issue and, you know, go to Capitol Hill and talk about the issue. And so so yeah, so so I guess food led me to that as well. And I think, you know, once you have that platform advocating for other things that you care about, like wild fisheries and wild places, and I think there's always a connection as well.

00:14:59:11 - 00:15:17:09
Tom Colicchio
For me too, I realized so much lately. I was listening to a podcast and I realized how much that I need to be out a wildlife think that's why I fish. It's not so much to catch fish, it's to be there in those places. And so and so food. Food, I guess, is the through line that goes through the whole narrative.

00:15:17:11 - 00:15:25:00
Tom Colicchio
And but so yeah that's, that's I think how I got there.

00:15:25:02 - 00:15:50:14
Mark Titus
This first of all I'm 100% with you on being in the wild. I think obviously if anybody knows the work I do and the things that kind of fuel me was just out last week. River snorkeling up in the Upper North Cascades to work on my new film, Current film. That'll be a third and final film in this trilogy after the Wild.

00:15:50:14 - 00:16:13:21
Mark Titus
And at one point I was in this river and I'm looking down at the Stones and the light play that's going on and the trout around me. And at one point I realized I hadn't had a thought in 30 minutes better, and I was like, Hallelujah, You know, that's the whole point. And I'm like, You're home. You're in the world.

00:16:13:21 - 00:16:40:12
Mark Titus
You're living in the world. You're not just completely focused on this, you know, whatever machinations you've got in your own head, right? But, you know, coming back to food and this idea we all, every being has to consume something. So it's a it's a universal principle. But when you look at the disparity of the issue and hunger in the United States, it seems so daunting.

00:16:40:12 - 00:16:53:15
Mark Titus
And we'll come to some of the other daunting tasks. But have you got your brain around this? Like what can an average human being do to contribute to this crisis of hunger in our country?

00:16:53:16 - 00:17:15:17
Tom Colicchio
Well, it's a crisis of poverty, right? And so hunger is a symptom of poverty. If you if you you know, everybody says the food system is broken. Well, no food system working just fine the way I was intended to work. If you have money, you can plug into it. If you don't, you're going to struggle and you're going to have to buy the cheapest food possible for your family, which is typically the most the least nutritious food that's there.

00:17:15:17 - 00:17:46:03
Tom Colicchio
And so and so, you know, there are programs and this is what we learned from the film. You know, there are programs that help hungry people, but then there are also programs that help alleviate poverty, like a child tax credit, like raising minimum wage, SNAP, The Food Nutrition Assistance Program, which is without food stamps, used to be the work program, which helps feed women and women.

00:17:46:05 - 00:18:06:16
Tom Colicchio
Women, infants and children, school breakfast and lunch programs. You know, during the pandemic entitled Child Tax Credit cut child poverty in half, and they want to get rid of it. And so the average person, you know, I would say, you know, yes, it's great to volunteer at a food bank and all that stuff and donate food that does that.

00:18:06:18 - 00:18:30:06
Tom Colicchio
It helps manage hunger. It's not going to end it. Government has the ability, smart government has the ability to end hunger. And so, you know, if you really care about this issue, if it's just me, it's me. This should be one of those single issue, you know, voting, you know, that's going to get voters to the booth, to the polls, you know, making sure that people are well-nourished.

00:18:30:06 - 00:18:47:01
Tom Colicchio
And so why I say, well, you know, yeah, I can say, well, I'm kind of a bleeding heart liberal. I want to make sure people are fed all right. That's that's one way of looking at it. But let's look at the let's look at something else and maybe we can all get behind. When kids help the school hungry, they're not going to learn.

00:18:47:07 - 00:19:07:00
Tom Colicchio
They're going to act up there in the central principal's office. They're probably going to at some point just complete disconnect. Those are the kids that drop out. Typically, not everyone. There's plenty of stories I hear people now I know someone who blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they did. You know, that's that's a good story. The vast majority of these people are really slipping through the cracks.

00:19:07:02 - 00:19:30:02
Tom Colicchio
And so if we want, you know, we want to continue this this American dream, we need everyone in society to contribute. Right. As the baby's name is wagging the finger. So some are lazy, they don't contribute. Well, part of that is education. Right. And so if you can get an education because your values are full and you can go to school and you can learn and you're not distracted, that's going to help you that to your full potential.

00:19:30:08 - 00:19:46:06
Tom Colicchio
And if you look to your full potential, you actually will become a, you know, a contributing member of society. And that's what we all really want. And so how do we give those legs up, you know, the Head Start programs and things like that to really make sure that these kids who no fault of their own, they're born into poverty.

00:19:46:08 - 00:20:02:03
Tom Colicchio
So nothing that they did. Right. And how do we make sure that they get a leg up so we don't they don't continue that that cycle of poverty. How do you break it if we say, you know, most people would say that education is the key to upward mobility? Well, I would say that, you know, kids going to go hungry are not going to learn.

00:20:02:03 - 00:20:13:00
Tom Colicchio
So that's just as important as giving a kid a desk and a box. Right. And so that's why I think society should really care about this issue.

00:20:13:02 - 00:20:25:09
Mark Titus
It's brilliant to break it down. I mean, if you're hungry, you can't think straight. And I mean, it's true. Yeah. And I think that that's kind of where I was going with this also.

00:20:25:13 - 00:20:47:23
Tom Colicchio
That has been a factor in the shame of being the kid who's hungry. You know, when you're living in poverty, you know, you feel it, you know, and then you hear people wag the finger. The parents go, you bought soda for them. Well, sodas cheap, right? And all day long you have to tell your kid no, no to the pair of sneakers that their friends have no to go into a movie, no to buying that toy.

00:20:47:23 - 00:21:13:04
Tom Colicchio
They say, no, no, no, no, no. And then they're in the store. They say, Can I have a soda? Well, that's cheap. I could say yes to that. Right. And so it's so much more complicated than what it appears to be. You know, the idea most people who are on SNAP or food stamps are working. Most people are on SNAP for, I think an average of about four, you know, 3 to 4 months.

00:21:13:06 - 00:21:23:15
Tom Colicchio
You know, it's really just a way to help people when they're going through a difficult time. And so, you know, I but yeah, there's there's a lot of reasons why people should care about this issue.

00:21:23:16 - 00:21:45:21
Mark Titus
Well, it's I'm hearing that it's taking empathy down all the way to its core. You know, I think people want to be empathetic or they think they're empathetic, but they always compare that. We always compare that with our own life experience. And if you haven't experienced that shame or that hunger or that real need, I mean, that was an incredible I mean, it brought tears to my eyes.

00:21:45:21 - 00:21:49:04
Mark Titus
Yeah, that's that's true. Like.

00:21:49:06 - 00:22:09:09
Tom Colicchio
I think it's all true. And so this is where I have hope here. You talked about empathy. Yeah. And most people can't can't, you know, experience that unless they live it well during the pandemic, right In the height of the pandemic, we saw all those cars lined up. All right. Lined up for miles at food banks, looking to get food.

00:22:09:11 - 00:22:34:04
Tom Colicchio
Well, if you looked at those lines of cars, I saw a lot of BMW and Mercedes in there and expensive cars. So that tells me that these were people who never in a million years thought that they would be online waiting for food. These are people that were solidly middle class, upper middle class, and all of a sudden, again, through no fault of their own, they found themselves out of work, completely struggling and not knowing where to turn.

00:22:34:06 - 00:22:50:03
Tom Colicchio
And so I'm hoping that that that lived experience will create a deeper sense of empathy when it comes time to actually look at these programs and say, you know what, I'd be willing to pay a little more in taxes to make sure that society gets a leg up.

00:22:50:05 - 00:23:14:19
Mark Titus
Yeah, I do think I think you're right. And I also think that you're right about there's going to be before COVID and after COVID, and we don't even know yet all of the things that are going to roll out of this. But I hope I think you're you're correct on this sense of empathy. You know, it took us everybody didn't matter as indiscriminate to it took everybody to a place they'd never been before.

00:23:14:21 - 00:23:34:08
Mark Titus
And I think there can be some real benefits out of that. Well, looking down another little tributary tributary of this topic, there's a bill in Congress now called the Food Donation Improvement Act. Yes. What is what is this? And does it have a prayer considering the rampant tribalism? We're all walking through right now?

00:23:34:09 - 00:24:02:03
Tom Colicchio
Yeah, it does. It does, because it's just it already has by a bipartisan support. And so what's interesting is, is there already laws that protect people who are donating food, but only to charities, only to 501c threes. And so if I'm an organization like a restaurant and I decide that I want to donate food to City Harvest, I'm protected under the Emerson Act, the Emerson Law, for any liabilities.

00:24:02:06 - 00:24:20:08
Tom Colicchio
Now, number one, most people don't know this. I know when I talk to a lot of people about donating food, they they like, well, I don't I don't want to be liable. You're not liable as long as you're donating to a51c3, but not if you're donating or giving money to an individual or normally true to an individual. So let's look at this for a second.

00:24:20:10 - 00:24:49:20
Tom Colicchio
Jose Andreas World Central Kitchen. All right. If there's a storm barreling up the coast of Florida and it's bearing down on Florida, so there's he starts to mobilize and mobilize chefs. Right. His organization, part of what they do is they mobilize chefs who are in that in that area to start feeding people, feeding the emergency workers. Right. So calls will go out through the networks, restaurants that are going to probably close anyway because of the hurricanes barreling down.

00:24:50:01 - 00:25:05:23
Tom Colicchio
They stay open. They keep their staff there. And World Central Kitchen gives them money for the meals they prepare. So that's what that's what they do. A lot of people don't don't really know what they do. And you what's amazing what O'Dea does, I mean, they also set up feeding stations of their own. But this is what they do now.

00:25:06:01 - 00:25:31:15
Tom Colicchio
If I'm one of those restaurants and I'm giving food to a a first responder and they get sick, unlivable because that's not a501c3 I'm giving money to, I'm giving food to the individual. And so this new law will actually protect anyone donating food to an individual, not only to a charity. So it's a no brainer. They don't have to raise taxes.

00:25:31:19 - 00:25:34:14
Tom Colicchio
You don't have to do anything. This is a no brainer. This will pass.

00:25:34:16 - 00:26:06:06
Mark Titus
Fantastic. Well, I mean, you know, the amount of food waste and I, I didn't know this till fairly recently the last couple of years talking to guys like you and our friend Tom Douglas out here in Seattle. The amount of food waste is staggering. Yeah. And is there a now this you just mentioned World Central Kitchen in that sort of a a you know, a reactive emergency response sort of scenario you painted there.

00:26:06:06 - 00:26:14:20
Mark Titus
But it does this trickle down into everyday life now with restaurants and and other food suppliers being able to give away food.

00:26:14:23 - 00:26:34:02
Tom Colicchio
Well, what's happening is restaurants typically don't waste a lot of food. You know, we're not the culprit. We're trained to use everything. You know, that's part of a chef's training is, you know, use every bit of the animal, every bit of the vegetable, You know, any kind of scraps or stuff like that goes into stocks and, you know, family meal, things like that.

00:26:34:02 - 00:26:52:20
Tom Colicchio
So so that's not but a lot of it happens in just the everyday household about, you know, a quarter of the food that you purchase goes to waste. A lot of it happens in the field where things are left behind. And I'm gardening. Just before I got on this call, I'm in my garden and I have more pickles than I know to do with right now.

00:26:52:22 - 00:27:10:03
Tom Colicchio
I already canned a bunch of them to make enough pickles for for two years. So, you know, I'll probably take them and drop them off at a food pantry or something. But, you know, if I couldn't do that, they would go to waste. They dump in the compost. I mean, so at least they're not creating methane and, you know, being buried on creating compost with them.

00:27:10:05 - 00:27:34:19
Tom Colicchio
But still, yeah, that's just my little garden. There is so much stuff left behind in farms, especially now that our our immigration is so screwed up that there are farms that are leaving their stuff in the field because they have no one to pick them. And so there's a lot of stuff left behind there. There's also a ton of stuff that is left behind in supermarkets because when supermarkets, when they put their displays out there, if there's one head, a two heads of lettuce, you're to walk right by them.

00:27:34:21 - 00:27:55:02
Tom Colicchio
You want to see a big display of lettuce and vegetables. And so a lot of stuff ends up in the garbage there. The other thing is when we sort stuff right again in the supermarket, you go to a farmer's market, you're going to see all different sizes. Zucchini, right? You go to a supermarket, they're all going to be exactly six inches long, maybe, you know, inch, inch and a half inch in circumference.

00:27:55:07 - 00:28:23:22
Tom Colicchio
And so stuff that doesn't make the grade when they're packing, it gets wasted. So there's waste throughout the entire system. You know, we waste billions of dollars worth of food and so anything that we can do to capture that and reuse it because it's not wasted unless it goes into a landfill at that point is it's creating methane, which is the largest contributor to you, you know.

00:28:24:00 - 00:28:26:17
Mark Titus
Greenhouse gases. Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:26:19 - 00:28:46:19
Tom Colicchio
And so contribute to greenhouse gases. And so we are so there's a lot that we can do. There's one company that I'm working with now. It's, it's they're doing on a massive scale. They have contracts with a bunch of supermarkets and so they're going and collecting the food from the supermarkets. And most of this stuff is perfectly edible.

00:28:46:21 - 00:29:06:10
Tom Colicchio
Our motto is donate to people first and second. Now think about a farm, what farmers used to do years and years ago. There's to feed. That's up to the animals, right? Right. So what we're doing is we're taking all that supermarket waste. We put it through a digester, it comes out like this brown sludge. It's odorless and, you know, it tastes like nothing.

00:29:06:12 - 00:29:36:06
Tom Colicchio
It gets dried and it we pellets it and we're actually feeding chickens. And so we have a whole brand of chickens called do good chicken that is essentially carbon neutral. And so these we're taking out waste product and in perfectly good food, we're taking that that stream that would end up in landfill and feeding chickens with it. And so also we're reducing the amount of corn and soy that we're feeding chickens as well.

00:29:36:08 - 00:29:58:17
Tom Colicchio
And so it's it's just one of those brilliant things that get done on a massive scale. And so it's just one of those one of those solutions to a big problem that's going to, I think, really, really help. And we're not, you know, our our brand is is in stores now and but it's a very small percentage of the chicken production right now but hopefully we'll scale it.

00:29:58:19 - 00:30:06:10
Mark Titus
Yeah. I was just going to ask if if you know average consumer wanted to be on the lookout for this, what is what is that Right.

00:30:06:12 - 00:30:22:05
Tom Colicchio
Go to go to our website do good chicken dot com just Google do good chicken bring it to the website and you can see if it's local. I don't think it's out on the West Coast just yet but we're we're we're growing pretty quickly.

00:30:22:07 - 00:30:49:04
Mark Titus
I want to I want to pivot to your work as a restaurateur in just a second. But to hang with one more because I just mean I just am fascinated by this. What's your take on factory farming here in the US? I mean, we clearly we have to eat. We've come to a place of producing protein as cheaply as possible for the masses.

00:30:49:06 - 00:31:02:08
Mark Titus
Where do you see us moving in the next decade and is there an imperative to move to provide protein necessary for the people of this country?

00:31:02:10 - 00:31:30:18
Tom Colicchio
It's a tough one because, you know, on one hand, if you do away with with that kind of farming, the prices of protein are going to go way up. And that's not going to help hungry people. So but on the other hand, I, I buy from a food system for my restaurants outside of the mass produce food. I think it's better for the health of the planet, better for the health of the whatever your farming.

00:31:30:20 - 00:31:36:12
Tom Colicchio
But I think, you know, again, the pandemic really showed us how we have to start to decentralize that food system.

00:31:36:14 - 00:31:37:05
Mark Titus
Right. I saw a.

00:31:37:05 - 00:31:57:20
Tom Colicchio
Lot of of plants that were shut down really put a real damper on our food system. So I think we need start spreading stuff out, make it less centralized. You know, right now we only have really four big chicken companies and ten to, I think big meatpackers left. And that's not good for anybody. I think that that's not good for prices.

00:31:57:20 - 00:32:14:17
Tom Colicchio
That's not good for the small farmer. It's no good for the small farmers either, you know, these crazy stories. And so during the pandemic, when those slaughterhouses closed, right, when they reopened, they could have moved pigs through them because there are too big the animal keeps growing. Right. So the animals supposed to be, I don't know, £200. I can get these numbers wrong, say £200.

00:32:14:21 - 00:32:31:06
Tom Colicchio
That's the size of every single one of those things that you raise. They have to be to go through that slaughterhouse. Right. This is the Packer telling the farmer, this is what you have to do. Now all of a sudden that slaughterhouse closes, that processing plant closes, but these animals are still being fed and they still got to eat and it's still growing.

00:32:31:09 - 00:32:37:14
Tom Colicchio
Now all of a sudden they reopen them. These pigs are £250, so you £2 and you tell a farmer, Sorry, we can't take it.

00:32:37:16 - 00:32:38:13
Mark Titus
Wow.

00:32:38:15 - 00:32:56:07
Tom Colicchio
So the farmer has to euthanize the animal or try to figure something out. And so again, this is because everything is just too centralized. It's there's no flexibility at all. So, yeah, a lot of the a lot of the pig farmers and other other farmers are just up in arms because they were losing the product, no fault of their own.

00:32:56:08 - 00:32:59:16
Tom Colicchio
But they had these contracts and they can't they can't get around them.

00:32:59:18 - 00:33:30:03
Mark Titus
Do you see a viable path here in this country where we we can localize our food supply in a much more efficient way, localize, regionalize our supply chains and try to eat more locally? I know, I know. We all talk about that and we all people like you in your restaurants, you walk that walk. But I mean, yeah, coming back to that, that analogy in the beginning about like, hey, you're hungry, you're hungry and you can't afford you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

00:33:30:03 - 00:33:38:06
Mark Titus
So like, is there a viable path forward in your mind to to try to do this in a way that can feed people that need it?

00:33:38:07 - 00:34:10:08
Tom Colicchio
Yeah, Yeah. I think one way to do it is, is create incentives for farmers to grow. You need markets. So. So let's look at this for a second. So let's just say where I am here in the northeast end of long Island, there's a ton this is farm country out here. There's wineries and a huge potato growing area, cauliflower and but there's a lot of farms, a lot of farm stands and stuff.

00:34:10:08 - 00:34:35:04
Tom Colicchio
And I think you'd have more land that would actually be used for fruits and vegetables if there were more markets. You have to rely on your farmstand So people coming out and buying from farm stands, Well, what if we had a regional processing plant here that would buy fruits and vegetables from farmers, minimally processed them, right, freeze them and then use them in the school system?

00:34:35:06 - 00:34:54:17
Tom Colicchio
All right. So now if farmers have a market, an additional market to what they have now and there's programs in the farm bill that are farm to school programs, but I think they could be more robust. But what's missing, you know, my mother ran a school cafeteria and she was a you know, back when she was doing it, they actually had cooks and they were buying raw products and cooking them now.

00:34:54:21 - 00:35:18:03
Tom Colicchio
And I'll just comes in, you know, they put pop things in the steamer and that's it. And so and so, you know, the idea of getting food from a farm to a school, although it sounds good, there's no practical way for that to happen. But if there was a processing regional processing plants that could do this, when I say, you know, taking the peas and especially a school is not in session in the middle of summer and all the stuff is growing, right?

00:35:18:08 - 00:35:48:17
Tom Colicchio
So if you could just blanch the peas, freeze them ready for school, take the carrots again, blanch the carrots and peel, chop, blanch them ready to go in the school system so you can help create that regional system. But again, on a much bigger scale, I think also it's just kind of happening on its own. I think especially young people, they want to know who's producing their food, the effects it has on the environment, the effects that the health of them, of the food system.

00:35:48:18 - 00:36:07:23
Tom Colicchio
And so I think a lot of this is happening on its own. But, you know, it could could be incentives. I mean, for instance, you know, we've done a the government has done a ton and spent a ton of money on R&D, on how to create how to grow more corn and more soy and more wheat on the same amount of acres.

00:36:08:01 - 00:36:38:10
Tom Colicchio
Right. But they have really done that for fruits and vegetables. And so that kind of research and creating the right where you can grow more on the same amount of soil, to me that's that's kind of key and, you know, creating and creating those markets. But I think it's happening and I think it will continue to happen. But it's not going to it's not it's not like turning a switch and saying, you know, tomorrow we're going to shut down every KPHO out there.

00:36:38:12 - 00:37:02:20
Tom Colicchio
Right. So, you know, that's not going to happen. You know, there are some bills. I know Cory Booker's trying to try to outlaw CFOs by, I think 2030. I don't see I don't see that as much chance of passing. But but, but but there's talk there's a lot of talk and there's there's clearly a move towards trying to make healthy foods more accessible and more affordable.

00:37:03:02 - 00:37:04:14
Tom Colicchio
That's the real key.

00:37:04:16 - 00:37:24:18
Mark Titus
It's bending toward hope. You know, honestly, I think one of the central images we're going to be looking at in the turn in this next film is is a murmuration like a murmuration of birds or a murmuration of salmon all turning at the same time. And these are conversations that are happening on the West Coast. They're happening in the Midwest, they're happening on the East Coast.

00:37:24:20 - 00:37:54:15
Mark Titus
And this is hopeful bending. I'm going to I'm going to bend toward another topic here and head back into the gloom of the forgotten years of the last several years here for a moment. And I just want to ask you, many, many restaurants and everyone who depends on them didn't make it through COVID. How did you and your restaurant business of many restaurants survive and what's Sunday gravy now?

00:37:54:15 - 00:38:33:20
Tom Colicchio
Okay. So yeah, when when the pandemic hit and restaurants across the country were forced to close, you know, we still had bills to pay. We still had fixed costs that we were paying. And people were struggling very, very quickly. Myself and a bunch of other chefs, we co-founded organization called the Independent Restaurant Coalition, and we wanted to make sure that Congress and our government understood how how we were impacted by the pandemic and how the communities that we support and that we that we that we operated in.

00:38:34:01 - 00:39:02:05
Tom Colicchio
We're also going to be affected if we lost independent restaurants and we successfully lobbied the government to put together packages to get to restaurants. We got $28.6 billion, which sounds like a lot of money. It is a lot of money, but it was still 40 billion. Sure, than what we really needed. So there was an application process. You fill out your application and money was granted to you.

00:39:02:05 - 00:39:23:05
Tom Colicchio
There was the grant, it wasn't a loan. And when the money was all gone, we were about $40 billion short of covering everyone that applied and we had a second bite at the apple. And we I think we ended up four senators short of getting another $40 billion for our industry. And so that's that's what we did. We're still working out.

00:39:23:05 - 00:39:49:10
Tom Colicchio
We're still it's still not dead yet. We're hoping that maybe we can get something through reconciliation. But of course, our our Democratic friend Joe Manchin doesn't want to send spend any more money on COVID related expenses. Are are. And so he's kind of putting a damper on that, Like he does so many things. But, you know, it's it's tough for the restaurants that didn't receive money because if you're, you know, working in the same community as a restaurant, they received money.

00:39:49:10 - 00:40:12:02
Tom Colicchio
Now all sudden they can pay workers more money. They can maybe do some renovations or something when you're kind of stuck struggling. And so restaurants are still really struggling. We hear every single day from chefs or restaurateurs that are closing their doors. So it's it's been it's been a real, really tough I mean, I got through one of my restaurants received funding out of the four that I had.

00:40:12:04 - 00:40:33:06
Tom Colicchio
And but we did get some PPE loans that were converted into grants. And that's how a lot of restaurants got by. We got some eidl loans, but also we were very careful about what we did and what we spent money on. I didn't build one of those outdoor spaces and we were able to renegotiate some terms of our leases with our landlords.

00:40:33:08 - 00:41:05:18
Tom Colicchio
I did lose one restaurant through a unscrupulous landlord who completely screwed me over. But yeah, we came out of it. Okay. You know, the workers early on, especially early in the pandemic the first year, were we're in pretty good place because unemployment was so robust and they were no one was going out spending money stuck home. So the workers, for the most part, were okay, the workers that that maybe for whatever reason couldn't couldn't receive unemployment.

00:41:05:18 - 00:41:24:19
Tom Colicchio
We we helped out best we could, but we got through it. We're doing okay now. You know still concerned about another wave of of of the pandemic coming through in the fall. Right. But you know, it's it's it's it's tough.

00:41:24:21 - 00:41:35:03
Mark Titus
You mentioned you you had one restaurant go under thanks to a landlord just for our our audience. Where are your restaurants? What are you what are you currently running?

00:41:35:05 - 00:42:08:18
Tom Colicchio
Well, I have Kraft in New York next door to craft. We had a private dining room that we had just renovated before COVID hit. We actually turn into an Italian trattoria called Vallarta. The lot is the town that my father was family came from. My father was born here. That's where his parents were from. And I have a small batch which is out in Garden City, Long Island, and we have Temple Court, which is in the Beekman Hotel and in the financial center downtown in New York.

00:42:08:20 - 00:42:26:12
Tom Colicchio
And then we have Kraft in Los Angeles and then we also have two restaurants in casinos in the MGM and the Mirage. One is called Kraft Steak, and the other is called Heritage Steak. And we had a restaurant called River Park, and that's the restaurant that we lost.

00:42:26:14 - 00:42:43:20
Mark Titus
That's right. That's where that I was there with you. It seems like a million years ago when the the breach was coming out and they were So another big aspect of your life. You've created this little shower. You've been one of the.

00:42:43:22 - 00:42:46:22
Tom Colicchio
Well, you asked me about it before. We did. Before I go to you ask me about sun gravy.

00:42:47:00 - 00:42:47:18
Mark Titus
Yeah.

00:42:47:20 - 00:42:49:00
Tom Colicchio
Thank you for.

00:42:49:06 - 00:42:50:07
Mark Titus
The for.

00:42:50:09 - 00:43:15:22
Tom Colicchio
Sun gravy. Growing up Italian-American, every Sunday we had gravy. Now gravy to most of the world is tomato sauce. We called the gravy because and if you look at the technical definition of gravy, it's a sauce made with meat drippings. Well, we would fry meat. My mother, we my mother would fry meatballs and sausage and brush all. And that would all go into the into the marinara sauce.

00:43:16:04 - 00:43:39:14
Tom Colicchio
Now, once that once the meat goes into the marinara sauce, it becomes gravy. And that was served over not pasta, but macaroni with something called pasta it was macaroni. And that was every Sunday. Maybe in the summer we wouldn't have. But every sun, every Sunday for during the dawn, for in the year, we would have that. And so I started doing that meal at my restaurant a lot.

00:43:39:15 - 00:43:42:17
Tom Colicchio
So every Sunday you can come in to get Sunday gravy.

00:43:42:19 - 00:43:45:09
Mark Titus
No, dude, I'm hungry.

00:43:45:11 - 00:43:46:08
Tom Colicchio
That's so.

00:43:46:09 - 00:43:53:13
Mark Titus
Good. That is a lovely tradition. And are you is that ongoing now?

00:43:53:15 - 00:43:58:10
Tom Colicchio
Post now? Occasionally I do not every Sunday, but occasionally I still I still do it. Yeah.

00:43:58:12 - 00:44:06:08
Mark Titus
Okay. Right on. All right. So this little show called Top Chef got 19 seasons.

00:44:06:09 - 00:44:11:05
Tom Colicchio
That's our shoot. Yeah, We start shooting our 20th season, middle of August.

00:44:11:07 - 00:44:31:07
Mark Titus
my God. Well, that's. That's incredibly rarefied air. How how have you guys been able to endure and thrive in a, you know, super competitive? We have all got A.D.D. that that's really keeping an audience for a long time with really quality work. How do you create success like that?

00:44:31:09 - 00:44:53:07
Tom Colicchio
Yeah, there's there's a lot of things. You know, it's funny, I was watching Shark Tank last night. It's just one of those things that we watch at my house and, you know, sitting there watching. And I realize that these are very accomplished people on the show. Right. All the the panelists people are spending their money and there are no producers telling them what to do and what to say.

00:44:53:09 - 00:45:16:21
Tom Colicchio
And it happens in our show, too. We say we want to say we make decisions that we're going to make. And so I think there's an authenticity that comes through because of that. The producers make the show. I mean, obviously it's the challenges and the casting and the way the show is late and the way it's directed. I mean, that's all part production and that's all incredible.

00:45:16:21 - 00:45:39:05
Tom Colicchio
And they do an amazing job with that, the editors to do the crazy job. I mean, we're shooting with six cameras 16 hours a day. It takes two days shoot an episode, you're seeing 48 minutes. So the editing process is just amazing. And so but I think because we don't sit back and say, well, this is a show and that's it, it changes all the time.

00:45:39:06 - 00:45:57:20
Tom Colicchio
We're constantly tinkering with it. We're constantly changing things. You know, I remember years ago when we used to, you know, eat the food, and then after that we'd go to the judges table and we spend an hour talking about it, and then we bring the contestants out and talk about it again. And then we send the contestants away and we talk about it again.

00:45:58:01 - 00:46:19:20
Tom Colicchio
And then we do our business where one won one episode, we were in Chicago and we were doing a block party, and so we were all sitting on a stoop in some brownstone on the street and we were chatting and we're all still miked. And so the producers hear us and they come over and they say, Can you save that for, you know, for for collaborations?

00:46:19:20 - 00:46:44:00
Tom Colicchio
And we're like, Well, why don't you just shoot this totally? And you're like, okay. And they came over and cameras and shot that, and that became our first deliberation, which then we turned into the mini deliberations that we have on the spot. And so that made that made a little more dynamic and fun in the moment. And so examples of like that is just sort of our way of constantly keeping the show fresh.

00:46:44:02 - 00:46:46:15
Tom Colicchio
The other thing that I love is we tackle social issues.

00:46:46:20 - 00:46:48:01
Mark Titus
Yes, you do every season.

00:46:48:01 - 00:47:06:17
Tom Colicchio
And that and the other thing that I think we did starting, I think it was the Seattle season and I remember this we had the parents of the final, I think there were four, you know, four chefs left. We brought their parents in right. And I was supposed to just go by. They were having a meal together. The parents were surprising them.

00:47:06:17 - 00:47:21:23
Tom Colicchio
And and it's just, you know, that kind of moment that that's kind of really just endearing. And and so I had to go say hi. Well, so I go to say hi. And then I started asking questions like, you know, tell me about, you know, when when your daughter, you know, told you that she wanted to become a chef.

00:47:22:04 - 00:47:42:05
Tom Colicchio
You know, she was in medicine, you know, go to med school and she came to. How did you feel about that? What did you think? And so you got this this back story going on. And that became like, my God, this is amazing. You know, the back story became such an important part of the show because you want to tell someone journey of how they got here and why they're cooking and why they do what they do.

00:47:42:05 - 00:48:06:03
Tom Colicchio
And and that's interesting. And so incorporating that into the show was something that we did. We didn't do from season one. And so just examples of that where we're constantly changing the show and incorporating Last Chance Kitchen into the show, which is our addition show that all the contestants that are eliminated get together. And it's kind of like Last Chef standing in the kitchen gets back into the competition.

00:48:06:05 - 00:48:31:15
Tom Colicchio
So that creates a different aspect of the show. And so begins all these things that we try that we I think that's what's made the show great. I think also, especially the last probably seven seasons, you saw a big change in the way the chefs interact with each other. For a much more supportive and I think that's where it's sort of indicative of where our industry is going.

00:48:31:17 - 00:48:50:23
Tom Colicchio
They're more supportive of each other. There's less backbiting and less less of the what we call the reality stuff. And the cooking is starting to really it's just gets better and better. So I think that's that's those are the reasons why the show is really enduring. And there's really no end in sight. You love it. We just got nominated for six Emmy Awards.

00:48:51:00 - 00:49:24:04
Mark Titus
It's it's it's quality. You know, my my grandfather on my mom's side was a baker in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He immigrated from Germany. And he would always tell my mom and my aunt quality. And, you know, it's it's hard to replicate. I mean, it's hard to fake that, you know, you've got it or you don't. Last question is like you just mentioned you you're adroit use you change and that enhances and strengthens the storylines in this show.

00:49:24:06 - 00:49:35:21
Mark Titus
How much how much input do you and the other founding judges panelists have into that creation, that creative part of the the show itself?

00:49:35:23 - 00:49:57:16
Tom Colicchio
Not not a lot you know, I don't have that kind of brain to come up with those challenges. I mean, our producers are so don't don't. Donen, who is our executive producer, our showrunner, she's been on the show from day one. She started this to Larry, and now she's running the show and her and her team, they're just creative thinking of the stuff about what they do with.

00:49:57:16 - 00:50:13:09
Tom Colicchio
So, you know, every season we're in a different city and they go to that city and they spend a lot of time there and they find out, you know, what's really important to that city. And and that's how the challenges start. And so, you know, we're shooting in London this year. I think that's pretty known. I'm not saying anything.

00:50:13:09 - 00:50:36:01
Tom Colicchio
I can't say where the finale is, but we're shooting in London. And so the city is going to play a big role in its challenges. Now, what they will do is we'll get the grid. So of all the challenges, in fact, we had a meeting yesterday. We're going through all the challenges and so we can give feedback and make comments and things like that.

00:50:36:03 - 00:50:42:08
Tom Colicchio
But but the actual creative that really happens with that production team. Yeah.

00:50:42:10 - 00:50:47:14
Mark Titus
So much fun. And you still I mean, it seems like you get joy out of this.

00:50:47:14 - 00:51:12:15
Tom Colicchio
This is it's work. It's so much fun on so many different levels. Number one, I get to see a lot of young chefs get to meet them that I wouldn't get to meet at all. These are, you know, I think we do a great job casting because if you look at the amount of of chefs that have come through Top Chef and not the winners, just there's probably 150 or so chefs that been on our show that have multiple restaurants are winning Beard Awards.

00:51:12:15 - 00:51:34:12
Tom Colicchio
They're winning food, wine, best sous chef. They're really contributing to to the industry. And so that's a blast to get to know them, you know, early on and see what they're doing and see these young chefs work. Number two, just our production team is fantastic. It's like going to summer camp. I would say it's like it's like going to summer camp, you know, for six weeks that we're in production.

00:51:34:14 - 00:51:50:14
Tom Colicchio
These are your friends, these are your, you know, you're working a ton of hours. You're, you know, but it's a lot of fun and it's the same people every single season. And so it's like, you know, going and having your camp friends that you spend that time, a bunch of us play instruments and get together at night and and and play and sing.

00:51:50:14 - 00:52:19:00
Tom Colicchio
And and so it's it's become something that I look forward to every year. And it's it's a blast to work with Gal and Padma and you know it's it's we've really gotten to know each other and you know some of the early seasons trying to figure that all out. Navigating that was sometimes difficult. You know there's a couple of egos in the room and including mine and but we manage all through that and we all we all have a blast doing the show.

00:52:19:02 - 00:52:25:12
Mark Titus
Yeah, it's it's kind of a miracle. I mean, you know, people people disagree through time, especially through creative things.

00:52:25:12 - 00:52:41:22
Tom Colicchio
And but, you know, we we do. But one thing we do is we respect each other. Yeah, I respect Portland's opinion people. And I was not a trained chef. Whatever. She eats out a lot. She cooks at home a lot and she has a great palate. So I respect her. I respect Gail, I respect the guest judges that come on.

00:52:41:22 - 00:52:57:18
Tom Colicchio
And so that's that's why it works, because we're no one sitting there going, Well, yeah. So this is not how we're talking about, and it's not about putting each other down. You see in a lot of other shows where that's more part of the shtick, you know, this is sick. And the other thing is we're like really serious about what we do.

00:52:57:20 - 00:52:58:21
Tom Colicchio
You know, we want to get it right.

00:52:58:21 - 00:52:59:21
Mark Titus
That's apparent.

00:53:00:03 - 00:53:20:14
Tom Colicchio
We really want to get right. And, you know, there's a lot of times where people will say, well, you said so-and-so again, six cameras shooting 16 hours a day is a lot of stuff that we say. And there has to be a narrative and it has to be a storyline. And we also can't make a show where most cases we eat the food, we literally sit there and go, What do you think?

00:53:20:18 - 00:53:39:08
Tom Colicchio
And we're all on the same page now. But that wouldn't be much of a show if we sit there and go, Johnny's going home, and Giants going, I'm going, He's going home. Yeah, it's how he wins. Sally wins? Yeah, we have to talk it out. We have to say things. And you know, you kind of try to be balanced, try to give some negatives and positives, and then you let the editing team figure it out from there.

00:53:39:10 - 00:53:58:05
Tom Colicchio
But when we make a decision if because that person made the worst dish, no questions asked, you know, well, we'll work it out. But and whoever's going to win is because they made the best dish and that's it. All that other shit that goes on behind the scenes that everyone sees and gets attached to. Didn't you see what so-and-so said?

00:53:58:07 - 00:54:13:02
Tom Colicchio
We don't see that. We see it, you know, when we see the show. I have no idea that so-and-so got into an argument with so-and-so and maybe they decide not to buy that food. I don't care about that. I care what they did.

00:54:13:04 - 00:54:35:11
Mark Titus
Well, you know, I got a little taste behind the scenes firsthand this last fall at one of your compatriots who appeared in the wilds, Mark Harmon, filmed an entire episode up in Bristol Bay, and that show has been on the air for 19 years. And I got to watch the behind the scenes machinations. So they brought me on as a producer.

00:54:35:13 - 00:55:06:01
Mark Titus
And it's incredible the flow, the the, the I've never seen people turn around a scene like these folks did and the efficiency and and I know how much went into making that episode happen. It was called Great Wide Open and it was kind of Mark's swan song, you know, for the for the show. And it was it was massive, the amount of work it took to just get the approval to move a company up to Alaska.

00:55:06:01 - 00:55:16:04
Mark Titus
And I know you guys move around all the time in it. I guess I'm just boiling this down to congratulations. It's a it's a huge success.

00:55:16:06 - 00:55:25:15
Tom Colicchio
Yeah, We shot in Alaska. Yes, we did. We shot it. You know, it was a blast. I hate Martin crabs like that. I did. I lived through it. That was great.

00:55:25:17 - 00:55:36:21
Mark Titus
Yeah, that's right. Well, we'll love to see you back up there again. Which. Which brings me to Bristol Bay. Yeah. For the love of God, can I get you to come fishing with me?

00:55:37:02 - 00:55:47:09
Tom Colicchio
I'd love to. I got to figure out a way to get up there. Do it. It's, you know, it's. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Ben, my boys are a little older because I'll take a trip up.

00:55:47:11 - 00:55:48:20
Mark Titus
That would be super cool.

00:55:48:20 - 00:55:54:20
Tom Colicchio
I'm trying to get some of the fish more, but it's. It's. It's. Yeah, well, it was easy.

00:55:54:22 - 00:56:26:21
Mark Titus
Understood. You know, it's a lot going on in that age. And, you know, Bristol Bay, this just kind of leading into our our road home here is a wonder I mean it's this year they're smashing records again highest harvest of all time over 54 million fish harvested all wild, all regenerative these the salmon make themselves that's the harvest they're expecting 75 million sockeye total.

00:56:26:23 - 00:56:32:16
Tom Colicchio
So, Mark, is the mind now completely stopped here? What's what's going on with that? Because I've, you know, have been talking a while.

00:56:32:18 - 00:57:06:22
Mark Titus
Yeah, you bet. So here's where we are. We're in a hopeful moment. Joe Biden made a commitment during his campaign that he would put an end to this pipeline and his EPA is still considering comments till September 6th. And so we've made the wild and the breach available for free for folks to watch. And their comment in to the EPA and let them know that this place is a place like no other on the Earth and it needs to be protected at all costs.

00:57:06:22 - 00:57:10:13
Tom Colicchio
Did the mining company that they pull out now?

00:57:10:13 - 00:57:47:22
Mark Titus
Not exactly. They're sort of a dormant entity right now. In fact, they're you may remember from the film and some news footage, they've had sort of a supply area on site in that burned that burned in a in a tundra fire this last summer. They're really, you know, for all intents and purposes, on their last gasp. But what we're concerned about is we anticipate the EPA is going to do the right thing and use their power under the 404c Clean Water Act and basically put a preemptive veto on any dredging.

00:57:47:22 - 00:57:53:22
Tom Colicchio
But but didn't they just lose some of their power in the Supreme Court ruling?

00:57:54:00 - 00:58:37:12
Mark Titus
Yeah, in that my understanding of that was that that was more specific to air quality than it was to water gun. But we we I guess to to summarize and answer your question, we we expect there to be a positive outcome here. But here's the here's the kicker. The what the EPA will do with this is particular to the 2020 submission of the Pebble project as is if somebody were to come in and say Pebble 2.0 or some other swing and you know what from another country or whomever, there's $500 billion worth of gold and copper in that place and folks are not going to go away quiet.

00:58:37:12 - 00:59:03:04
Mark Titus
Right. So the concern is until we get permanent protections and there are senators look at Murkowski and Sullivan from Alaska are are in fact working on with a lot of other folks a way to create a national marine fisheries area. But until such time as that happens, we're going to be at the whim of the political winds that that, you know, God knows are always changing.

00:59:03:04 - 00:59:27:09
Mark Titus
So we're in a good spot for this moment and we got to keep going. That's where we are. And so when you think about a place like Bristol Bay and obviously you've been a wonderful, vociferous champion for Bristol Bay, what is it about this place that that intrigues you as a chef and as an activist?

00:59:27:11 - 01:00:09:16
Tom Colicchio
You know, for me, it's again, it's something to think I mentioned that right off the top is is about protecting those wild places. There's so few of them left and, you know, there's yes, there are resources out there that we need, but there's also the enjoyment of wide open spaces that are so important. You know, going back to, you know, Teddy Roosevelt, who just decided that these wild places need protection and created the national park systems, and but, you know, there's just fewer and fewer of it.

01:00:09:16 - 01:00:31:12
Tom Colicchio
And, you know, we had to we have to keep these places wide open. Number one, I think that people should be able to enjoy the number two. I think it's imperative that, you know, we're destroying this planet so quickly. There are species that are disappearing at an alarming rate. We're going to make this planet inhabitable and there's no plan B and it's just going to Mars is ridiculous.

01:00:31:12 - 01:01:04:22
Tom Colicchio
It's not going to happen in anyone's lifetime. And so we need to seriously start thinking about ways to protect the place where we all live. And one way of doing it is keeping some of these places where, you know, they're not going to get clear cut. And that species that are living there, whether it's a marine species, an animal, a plant where there some protection so we can, you know, live in a planet that isn't going to be completely extinct because eventually we're going to extinguish ourselves.

01:01:05:00 - 01:01:07:17
Tom Colicchio
Yep.

01:01:07:19 - 01:01:15:10
Mark Titus
Two more here as we wrap this thing up. What story do you have a burning desire to tell what or what project?

01:01:15:12 - 01:01:48:04
Tom Colicchio
boy. I don't know. I'm writing, I write. I'm in the middle of a book. Kind of a cookbook, kind of a memoir. And really, you know, during the that during the pandemic, I did a lot of zoom classes, and most of it was about 20 minutes of cooking and 40 minutes of talking and really just, you know, looking at why I do what I do, you know, the cooking part of it, how I got there, knowing as a kid that I struggled with ADHD and back when I was a kid, that wasn't such a diagnosis, but my children, all three of them, have been clinically diagnosed.

01:01:48:04 - 01:02:20:02
Tom Colicchio
And I see a lot of the struggles that they have that I had. And, you know, did that lead me to cooking? Because I actually found something that was easy and I was good at it. So that's part of the story that I want to tell. And, you know, struggling with whether or not, you know, you get to a certain I'll be 60 this year and, you know, thinking of of life after restaurants and and how much longer I want to do this and I'm still going to continue to do this.

01:02:20:02 - 01:02:48:08
Tom Colicchio
But trying to figure out the best way for me to continue to engage with my restaurants, with the food world, trying, you know, how do you stay relevant? How do you create that space for the group, people that are coming up and and but still stay involved? And, you know, I can't work in a kitchen for 10 hours a day, let alone, you know, 14 hours a day anymore.

01:02:48:10 - 01:03:06:23
Tom Colicchio
So I do for 6 hours a day. It's, you know, when I opened for a lot of. Yeah, we were yeah. You know, I was opening in the store, couldn't get staff. So I was cooking for, you know, we were only open four nights a week when we first started. I was cooking four nights a week online and it was an open kitchen.

01:03:06:23 - 01:03:24:14
Tom Colicchio
This place looks residential, so it's a wide open kitchen. And I had a blast. But boy, after four days that I was beat and I was only working service. The funniest story, I'll tell you. So we had this one young woman who was working we hire she was from she's from Thailand. She's only been living in the country a couple of years.

01:03:24:16 - 01:03:49:09
Tom Colicchio
And so I would roll in around, you know, 5:00, 530 station was set up. I was working to pass the station. I would, you know, finish and the last dish would go out and I would, you know, grab a glass of wine and go home. And so, you know, two weeks into this, she turned to my chef and said, you know, the pasta cookie's really good guy, but why does he get to come in so late?

01:03:49:11 - 01:04:15:01
Tom Colicchio
It was great. But, you know, I it's it's, you know, at the end of the night, your knees hurt your back hurts, you're tired. And, you know, so so finding a way to stay creative, working with the chefs and keeping the restaurant going, I mean, that's kind of I'm trying to figure out my place nowadays. And that's that's like the next chapter in the book.

01:04:15:05 - 01:04:16:14
Tom Colicchio
That's. Well, explore.

01:04:16:15 - 01:04:37:14
Mark Titus
I forgot we're both Leos, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm I'm almost exactly ten years behind you and I'm feeling that stuff. And in fact, I mentioned the river snorkeling thing, you know, such joy, such peace and dude, my knees, like, banging around in the rocks. And I want your birthday. August 1st.

01:04:37:16 - 01:04:41:21
Tom Colicchio
my. Same as my son's nice. Yeah, nice. Jerry Garcia and Jerry Garcia.

01:04:42:00 - 01:04:44:18
Mark Titus
And Jerry Garcia. And yours is the third.

01:04:44:19 - 01:04:45:06
Tom Colicchio
15th.

01:04:45:11 - 01:05:03:00
Mark Titus
15th. Okay. My wife's. This is the second. They're just packed full. We got a whole family packed full. Leo's here. But I'm thinking the same thing. You know, I think in a general sense and that's also part of the new movie is going to be like turning it over. What's that? What's that moment when we're going to turn it over to the next generation?

01:05:03:02 - 01:05:31:09
Mark Titus
All right. Last question I have for you, and I'm to turn you loose. Thank you so much for for hangin with me and us today. You know, we're so deeply divided in this country. I'm obsessed with this image of a long table. You've talked about it sitting down with a family, sitting down with others. You know, some people think it's preposterous that we're ever going to get to a place of understanding with the these tribal silos that we've created in this country.

01:05:31:09 - 01:05:36:17
Mark Titus
But in your mind, do we do we have a shot at that? And if so, how do we do it? Yeah.

01:05:36:19 - 01:06:11:19
Tom Colicchio
I think we do. Yeah, I think we do. I don't know what's going to break the logjam. I have a feeling that at some point, you know, we're going to I mean, we're going to have to come to our senses at some point. And when you make the other the enemy, it's a problem. I mean, you know, and and that's what's kind of what's been happening is just the zero sum game of like demonizing the other side, because I have a different opinion.

01:06:11:21 - 01:06:28:03
Tom Colicchio
Right. And so, you know, what's funny is that I spent a lot of time up on the hill and behind closed doors. They're not like that. It's when they got to go out to the press, that's when it gets like that. When they have there during the primary season where you got to get your base out and it just gets ugly.

01:06:28:05 - 01:06:55:07
Tom Colicchio
But behind closed doors, you know, men and women are kind of normal and they're cordial. And most of them some of them aren't. But you know what? I find interesting is that after Obama won, all right, there was the autopsy that was done on the Republican Party and they got beat so bad and they lost the popular election and most of the last ten elections, whatever.

01:06:55:12 - 01:07:39:19
Tom Colicchio
Right. And eight elections. And so at some point, they're going to realize that, you know, it's not about gerrymandering to win and it's not about, you know, vilifying the other side to win. It's about actually creating good policy that people care about. And when that happens, I think and maybe it's going to take, you know, Democrats winning the midterms, which is going to be tough and Senate and and, you know, winning the presidency again and finally come around go wait a minute, maybe it's policies that we got wrong here, you know, and hopefully then there's a way to meet somewhere in the middle and look at what's best for the country as opposed to just

01:07:39:19 - 01:08:02:11
Tom Colicchio
how to stay in power, because that's the problem right now is is that that's the game is how do you stay in power as opposed to what's best for the country. And so as Liz Cheney, there is nothing that policy wise that we have in common at all. Right. Except though she had the decency to say, I don't care if I lose my election, I'm going to do what's right here.

01:08:02:13 - 01:08:13:16
Tom Colicchio
And Adam Kinzinger, the same thing. I'm going to do what's right here. I don't care about staying in power. I really don't. And maybe that's what we need more of, you know?

01:08:13:18 - 01:08:14:06
Mark Titus
Amen.

01:08:14:11 - 01:08:15:11
Tom Colicchio
Yeah.

01:08:15:13 - 01:08:21:22
Mark Titus
Yeah. People standing up for principle. I agree. I think Liz Cheney and frankly, Mike Pence should have statues.

01:08:21:23 - 01:08:43:14
Tom Colicchio
Well, I know about Pence. Pence didn't do anything. You know, he did the job right. But he did. He didn't. You know, listen, my I hated to throw water on this one, but Mike Pence got a legal opinion that it was against the law. What the president wanted him to do, if he had a different opinion, he may have made a different choice.

01:08:43:16 - 01:09:03:01
Tom Colicchio
And so he did his job. But, you know, I think he could have I think he could act a lot sooner. But anyway, he did his job. So if we're going we're giving out statues for people that are doing their job now, then great. Give them what?

01:09:03:03 - 01:09:21:11
Mark Titus
Well, we'll park it there for now. But last thing is the bonus round. Just what ever pops in your head. Everybody does it. You're going to love it. Let's say God knows now with climate change that could happen. But I'm not going on with it won't. Let's say your house was on fire and you could only get out one physical thing.

01:09:21:11 - 01:09:22:13
Mark Titus
What would that thing be?

01:09:22:15 - 01:09:24:11
Tom Colicchio
Well, besides my children, my life.

01:09:24:13 - 01:09:28:00
Mark Titus
Yes. All critters and loved ones are already our dogs.

01:09:28:01 - 01:09:49:00
Tom Colicchio
One thing. That's a good question, too. I don't know. I have several guitars. BOY one If I had to choose one, that's tough. There's. There's three that I would try to grab first. If I can only grab one of them.

01:09:49:02 - 01:09:51:18
Mark Titus
In.

01:09:51:20 - 01:09:52:16
Tom Colicchio
I don't know.

01:09:52:18 - 01:09:55:22
Mark Titus
There's no there's no wrong answer here, man. It's just whatever, pops. And I don't.

01:09:55:22 - 01:10:15:08
Tom Colicchio
Know. I've got I've got this froggy bottom. It's a small guitar maker in Vermont that makes the guitars. I have two of them, but one is a 12 fret, small body guitar that is my absolute favorite to play. So it could be that, you know, all my fishing rods and stuff are in the box in the barn, so I don't have to worry about that.

01:10:15:10 - 01:10:16:13
Tom Colicchio
Somebody has got.

01:10:16:13 - 01:10:17:12
Mark Titus
An exemption on that one.

01:10:17:12 - 01:10:35:09
Tom Colicchio
Yeah. Yeah. I don't, you know, that's, that's really it. You know what, I look around and I've got artwork and stuff that, that, you know, I like. But it's all disappeared tomorrow. I've lived with it. I don't know.

01:10:35:11 - 01:10:54:08
Mark Titus
It's funny. It's funny. You mentioned the guitar. I was just having a friend, a conversation with a friend who's older than I and he's a actually professional musician. And it's like, man, I think I want to, you know, as I'm turning 50 here and I'm probably overdoing it, but I'm thinking like, I got to learn to play the guitar.

01:10:54:08 - 01:11:01:19
Mark Titus
Like this has got to happen before before I check out of here. So I'm I'm feeling that the last so.

01:11:02:00 - 01:11:21:16
Tom Colicchio
So yeah, go ahead. Let me just make any comment on it. So when I was ten, I started playing. I stopped when I was 13, I stopped and 15 in my twenties I started and stopped and I my 40th birthday, I went out and said, this is something I've always wanted to do. And I went out and bought a guitar nice and started taking lessons and I played every cent ever since then.

01:11:21:20 - 01:11:23:23
Tom Colicchio
So it's never too late. Get out there and do it.

01:11:24:01 - 01:11:32:09
Mark Titus
And it's, you know, I just honestly mean and it's part about getting being five years sober now, like music different.

01:11:32:13 - 01:11:32:23
Tom Colicchio
It is.

01:11:33:03 - 01:11:41:00
Mark Titus
It is such a joy. It is such an experience. It is. And that's that's it. You know, certainly not going to have any fame or fortune surrounding.

01:11:41:02 - 01:11:42:17
Tom Colicchio
no, I'm playing skills.

01:11:42:19 - 01:11:48:01
Mark Titus
But boy, just to be able to play and contribute to the great song, that's kind of what it is. Yeah.

01:11:48:02 - 01:12:02:20
Tom Colicchio
No, it's fun. And just this weekend, my friend across, my neighbor across through, we did a pig roast and I pulled the guitar out afterwards and, you know, played for about an hour and sang and it's a blast that's around a campfire. That's what I do.

01:12:02:22 - 01:12:25:16
Mark Titus
That would be my my greatest ambition. But last, very, very last is same vein. If now it's a little more metaphysical, if you could if you could only pull out two things about you, two traits about you out of that fire and take them with you, what would those traits be that make you you.

01:12:25:18 - 01:12:35:04
Tom Colicchio
You know, I got a I have a 2:00 with my shrink this afternoon. And I don't know. I need this right now.

01:12:35:06 - 01:12:39:01
Mark Titus
Maybe it's good prep work. Come on.

01:12:39:03 - 01:13:01:05
Tom Colicchio
I think it's my ability to maintain, you know, just be open and be receptive to a lot of different things and new things that are out there and never kind of closing off and thinking that. That everything's, you know, everything's good, everything's fine and everything's enough. It's just being open. I think that's why, you know, the ADHD stuff.

01:13:01:06 - 01:13:20:00
Tom Colicchio
On one hand you can say this and I struggle with as a kid, but it's also with my superpower. It's the reason I'm able to do a lot of different things and want to do a lot of different things. That's the reason why I can do TV. I can have restaurants, I can play music, I can fish, I can garden, I can, you know, travel.

01:13:20:04 - 01:13:35:19
Tom Colicchio
I can do all that stuff except I can't write worth of shit. And and so I don't I think, okay with that I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't say, I wish I didn't have it, you know, but it's solid. I can, I can live with it now. So yeah.

01:13:35:21 - 01:13:49:09
Mark Titus
It's solid. I think I get a touch of it myself. Chef Tom Colicchio, thank you for joining us on Say what you love, folks want to get involved with whatever is the most recent on your mind. Where can they check out what you're doing?

01:13:49:11 - 01:14:09:18
Tom Colicchio
I don't know. I don't have like a personal web page or anything like that. I mean, Twitter and Instagram. Instagram, more food, more fishing stuff, Twitter, more political commentary and otherwise. So I think that's it. I'm not on I'm not on any other I'm not on Facebook. I'm not on, you know, all the other stuff that's.

01:14:09:19 - 01:14:18:06
Mark Titus
Got you, man. Well, thank you for your time. It's precious. And I will get you to Bristol Bay of these days and Will for now. We'll see you down the trail.

01:14:18:10 - 01:14:23:02
Tom Colicchio
Yeah, Take care. Thanks.

01:14:23:02 - 01:14:28:10
Music
How do you save what you love?
How do you save what you love?

01:14:35:18 - 01:15:01:17
Mark Titus
Thank you for listening to Say What You Love. If you like what you're hearing, you can help keep these conversations coming your way by giving us a rating on Apple Podcasts. You can check out photos and links from this episode at evaswild.com. While there, you can join our growing community by subscribing to our newsletter, you'll get exclusive offers on wild salmon shipped to your door and notifications about upcoming guests and more great content on the way.

01:15:01:19 - 01:15:39:00
Mark Titus
That's it. evaswild.com. That's the word Save spelled Backwards Wild dot com. This episode was edited by Patrick Troll. Original music was created by Whiskey class. This podcast is a collaboration between Eva's Wild Stories and Salmon Nation and was recorded on the homelands of the Duwamish People. We'd like to recognize these lands and waters and their significance for the people who lived and continued to live in this region whose practices and spiritualities were and are tied to the land in the water and whose lives continue to enrich and develop in relationship to the land waters and other inhabitants.